Do you think that Martial Arts and Physical Fitness should go hand in hand or do you think one can be a Martial Artist without being physically fit? Why?
Martial Arts and Physical Fitness
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
i have to agree with todd on this one. while it does help to be somewhat fit for the study of martial arts.....i dont think it is entirely necessary. fitness can become a by-product of martial arts training though.
i do believe in mental and physical conditioning. by physical conditioning, i mean that one is able to push their body beyond their normal limits.
shawn
i do believe in mental and physical conditioning. by physical conditioning, i mean that one is able to push their body beyond their normal limits.
shawn
OUMoose
Trying to find my place
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,566
- Reaction score
- 24
I believe physical fitness is crucial in martial arts. MA's are not, for the most part, "natural" movements, so a lack of fitness is going to hinder an artist's development. The body has to be capable of doing what you ask of it before it can surpass those limits.
:asian:
:asian:
Simon Curran
2nd Black Belt
Altough I don't think you need to be a marathon runner, or a body builder, all the theoretical skill and knowledge in the world won't help you if your body is unable to carry out the brain's orders
I think this is exactly right. The reason I say that is because I have a friend that goes to the gym and works out constantly. He does cardio, weight training, etc. I have done some weight training in the gym my self, but my point is, he and I like to box on occasion, and even though he is in much better "gym" shape than me, he has no wind, and it really shows when he takes a good hit.The Kai said:
As far as MA movements not being "natural movements", they are not. That's why we train to the point where the movements become "muscle memory". All in all, if you are a good martial artist, AND in peak physical condition, it sure doesn't hurt any.
I think it depends on the type of art, too. Obviously, someone with the same skills/training who is also in better shape (cardio, etc) will probably be able to perform better than another.
But I think it's a bit different if you are talking internal MA vs. external MA. I know some fabulous internal-style guys who are not traditionally "in shape", but there's no way I'd want to take a punch from them.
But I think it's a bit different if you are talking internal MA vs. external MA. I know some fabulous internal-style guys who are not traditionally "in shape", but there's no way I'd want to take a punch from them.
Tgace
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 7,766
- Reaction score
- 409
Would they be able to jump a fence and run behind some cover before a gun weilding attacker could shoot them? Physical fitness is necessary. For more than just hand to hand fighting. Theres a reason elite soldiers place so much emphasis on physical fitness....Feisty Mouse said:
Oh, as to that, no. I was just referring to skills and working together in the studio. Of course, for being able to cover ground, etc., you'd want to be in good shape, with a nice tough cardiovascular system.
But if one of these guys was stopped in a bar with a drunk taking a swing at them, they would do very well, I'm sure.
But if one of these guys was stopped in a bar with a drunk taking a swing at them, they would do very well, I'm sure.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #11
I would have to say that in an external art, physical fitness naturally goes hand in hand. Physical fitness is part of an external martial art. It happens through training and shaping your art and in a way, when you are honing your physical prowess, you are shaping your body artistically.
Even in an internal art physical fitness is an important part of the art. Flexability, health, and stamina can all be required when training in these arts and the cultivation of the above can only improve your overall art. For example, my tai chi instructor runs marathons and I have never seen anyone do the things he does.
We actually have physical fitness guidelines in our system. To earn a black Belt under my instructor, all students must be able to run two miles in 15 minutes, bench press their own weight, squat 1.5 times their own weight, be able to do 50 fingertip push ups and 50 decline sit-ups. Is this too much to require? Too little?
Even in an internal art physical fitness is an important part of the art. Flexability, health, and stamina can all be required when training in these arts and the cultivation of the above can only improve your overall art. For example, my tai chi instructor runs marathons and I have never seen anyone do the things he does.
We actually have physical fitness guidelines in our system. To earn a black Belt under my instructor, all students must be able to run two miles in 15 minutes, bench press their own weight, squat 1.5 times their own weight, be able to do 50 fingertip push ups and 50 decline sit-ups. Is this too much to require? Too little?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #12
Feisty Mouse said:
Is physical fitness important in internal arts? This sounds like an entirely new thread. I wonder what some of the internal artists have to say.
It depends on how your classes are run. If there is a strong emphasis on strength and stamina training in class I think it's not to much to require. However, if classes are mainly technique and practice and then you expect them to be able to do all these other physical requirements it is way too much. It is basically testing them on skills you've never taught them and that isn't right.upnorthkyosa said:
My black belt test included around a mile run, situps and pushups in a minutes, windsprints, flexibility tests and footwork drills.
I think you should try to be in good shape just for you general health, forget about helping your martial arts. Fitness should not be a pre-requisite of martial arts, but I feel it's one of it's greatest benefits.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #14
bignick said:
I think that if you are up front regarding your dan expectations even if the physical activity of your class is limited, it is still okay. The instructor should be cognizent that these skills require time to develop just like any other martial skills. Which brings me to my point...physical fitness, in my opinion, is a martial skill.
bignick said:
Do you think that this is an essential part of your art?
bignick said:
I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't know how the two could be separated if an overall goal of your training is self growth and improvement.
Wow. I don't think I'd be able to do that - even with lots of training. Bench press my own weight? Not with my shoulder injury, and not at my weight. And I'm not a behemoth.upnorthkyosa said:
I don't think they have to go hand in hand but I do think a person who is more fit can be more effective in martial arts. Martial Arts, even internal arts require strength, stamina, and flexilbity. A couch potato would be hard pressed to get through even the warm up excercises of a MA class, whether external or internal. Body builder buff doesn't necessarily mean physically fit. Thats only the strength aspect of total fitness.upnorthkyosa said:
I do think regular exercise outside the Kwoon brings an advantage in training. I am 40 years old, I excercise regularly and even as a relative beginner can hold longer and lower horse stances, do more push ups, sits ups, jumping jacks and laps, can take a kick to the thigh, and win chin-na sparring with a 17 year old male brown belt in my class.
He's not overweight. He's about 2 inches taller than me and has a good 30 pounds on me. He'll whip my butt regular sparring because he has far more experience than I in that dept. But I can keep up and not get tuckered out before he does. The areas where strength, stamina, and flexibility can make a difference I almost always have the upper hand and he is a very good martial artist and has much more knowledge and skill than I do.
Then there is a 20-something blue belt about the same size as the brown belt but the blue belt excercises. He too has an advantage over the brown belt and I can't out-do him. We're about even in stamina, he has more strength than me as a male and I more flexibility as a female. But we are both physically fit for our genders in all three areas. If I didn't excercise regularly I'd be much further behind in my training. It has helped me be more effective while learning.
JMO
:asian:
And I can totally agree with you on this.upnorthkyosa said:
Hmm...essential? No. Useful, certainly. Martial arts, internal or external, are a physical activity. Certainly, the more fit you are the easier any physical activity is.upnorthkyosa said:
Here I was just trying to say that with an epidemic of obesity sweeping the country, people should try to excersize and become healthy without having to feel forced. They should want to get in shape for their own health. I wasn't really speaking from a martial arts standpoint. I certianly agree that if you are studying a physical art you should strive to perfect your medium. Just as a painter doesn't want to paint on shoddy canvas and a sculptor would really rather not use Play-Doh...we should try to perform our art with our medium (body) in the best possible condition it can be.upnorthkyosa said:
(and for all my big words on the subject, I've got some real work to do there)
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
i dont think fitness is a prerequisite......as i said before....its something that happens because of martial training.
i know some teachers that start their classes without warm-ups or any sort of exercises simply because you are not allowed to warm up on the street before a fight. thats not to say he doesnt put them through a rigorous workout that has them sweating their butts off.
i also dont think that the majority start studying martial arts because they want to be elite soldiers....or leaders in the fitness world.
there are a lot of great martial artists out there with big bellies that would give any young "fit" fellow a great deal to think about.
shawn
i know some teachers that start their classes without warm-ups or any sort of exercises simply because you are not allowed to warm up on the street before a fight. thats not to say he doesnt put them through a rigorous workout that has them sweating their butts off.
i also dont think that the majority start studying martial arts because they want to be elite soldiers....or leaders in the fitness world.
there are a lot of great martial artists out there with big bellies that would give any young "fit" fellow a great deal to think about.
shawn
Simon Curran
2nd Black Belt
I would have to say that, in my opinion, is way too much to expect, considering every person is different, I exercise outside of class because that is just who I am, and have always done exercise, but to make demands which, for some people are just unreasonable, just seems unfair.upnorthkyosa said:
The Kai
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,925
- Reaction score
- 33
I try to avoid preset requirements, For testing the student is tested on the number of squats or pushup and then on the next test must beat that number. Oh yeah, the student believes that there is a number, which is always "just a few more'. We avoid weights and go with body weight exercises among othere reasons for the conditioning.
A person does not have to be in shape. We do Staminai, strenght, flexibilty, skill or sparring training in each class. People are encourages to cross train, I don't force them into the Vic tanny routine, I'd rather have em in my class!
Todd
A person does not have to be in shape. We do Staminai, strenght, flexibilty, skill or sparring training in each class. People are encourages to cross train, I don't force them into the Vic tanny routine, I'd rather have em in my class!
Todd
