mar·riage

[heretic888]

If you'll read my post, you'll find no assertion that Marx is the only way to see things.

Errr... I don't recall saying he was. I was simply point out that Marx himself only focuses on an extremely limited slice of the whole pie (if you will), and has a tendency to treat that piece as if it was the whole (with any non-materialistic philosophy being, in his view, an "opiate of the masses" --- a conclusion I would basically agree with, with the qualifier that it applies to all concrete-literal philosophies, whether religious or secular).

I'd also point out that Marx is not responsible for the monotony of capitalism.

Perceived monotony, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that there are some very important truths to socialism that humanity would do well to embrace --- I just think we shall do so when we are collectively ready, and now does not appear to be that time. At the same time, there are qualities from capitalism that we should be sure to preserve, as well. At any event, I think it is a more utopian view, if anything, and the particulars that Marx outlined (such as violent revolution) don't particularly sit well with me.

I do believe, however, that Marx himself engaged in a very extreme form of reductionism and materialism (with all philosophies being relegated to his 'ideologies' of oppression), and tended to miss out on a big piece of the pie due to that.

Laterz.

 

[michaeledward]

Any comments about the debacle in the Senate this past week?


I'm surprised that Frist (Bush) pushed so hard on the issue. I see it only as a loser for the Republicans, but they wanted to mark the tree, I guess.

Thoughts?

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I haven't seen this thread before! To jump in...

But it seems there is an alternative for the gay community.

No, there is not. Unless civil unions are made legal - what happens to the long-term "life partner" when her lesbian partner is sick in the hospital? Sorry, only family allowed in. What happens to a couple where each person is from different countries? Sorry, no marriage, no green card or visa so you can live together.

Ack - the fact that people want to change our Consitution (which I have very strong feelings about!) for the first time to EXCLUDE people, to start to make it a DEVISIVE document - that breaks my heart. I'm thoroughly glad that it did not pass.

I have similar feelings about gay civil unions (since we're talking about a legal thing here, not the perspective of individual religions) as I do to abortion (woah! hot topic!). If you don't want one, don't have one. If you don't want a gay union, by all means, abstain! But please don't tell other couples who love each other - and some have been together for decades - that they shouldn't.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

No, Caligula did not marry his horse. He made his horse a high priest.

Maybe he married his sister. I forget. Maybe the horse presided at his wedding?


Michael, I've seen it argued that the Republicans wanted the cloture to fail so they could point out the moral degradation of the Democrats voting against it. Had the cloture passed, it would have taken much of the wind out of their sails insofar as distracting the country from the election. As they seem to be slowly but surely losing, one can understand the desperation of their efforts.

It might have disconcerted them somewhat to have a number of Republicans like John McCain vote against the cloture...and then having him state that such an effort as put forward by the Right was un-Republican.

Good points, Feisty. I've often argued that heterosexuals shouldn't have Gay sex or get married to the same gender.

In Newsweek this week the cover article discusses "The New Infidelity: The secret lives of wives" and mentions that women's rate of infidelity is at 30-40% (correct me if I'm wrong...I'm pulling this from memory). 50% of men cheat.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5359676/site/newsweek/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5359395/site/newsweek

George Barna of Barna.org (he's a respected evangelical statistician) reports that the divorce rate of "born again" Christians exceed that of the general population...and evangelicals themselves have a thirty percent divorce rate.

Makes one what, exactly, it is that Rick Santorum is trying to protect. Sounds like we "breeders" have pretty much mucked up the institution of marriage as it is.

The REAL threat of Gay marriage, as I see it, might be that Gays might eventually have lower divorce rates than those Barna lists. That would be embarrassing.

The other significant danger would be that Carson Kressley might get married, settle down, and leave "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". I mean...dang...the guy KNOWS clothes. Slobs like me will be lost without him.


Regards,


Steve

 

[michaeledward]

In Newsweek this week the cover article discusses "The New Infidelity: The secret lives of wives" and mentions that women's rate of infidelity is at 30-40% (correct me if I'm wrong...I'm pulling this from memory). 50% of men cheat.

You know, as you think about these statistics ..... its the women who have extra-marital encounters really have it good, don't they?

<<< ducking >>>

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, as always...the economy's screwed (sorry, the economy's actually fine, providing you're rich), we're tangled up in at least one idiotic wars, one-third of Americans have no health insurance, our educational system sucks, the Prez has the vision and decency of pigeon ****....

Time to git on after them gay people!!!

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Well, as always...the economy's screwed (sorry, the economy's actually fine, providing you're rich), we're tangled up in at least one idiotic wars, one-third of Americans have no health insurance, our educational system sucks, the Prez has the vision and decency of pigeon ****....

Time to git on after them gay people!!!

Now STOP.

I will not brook a pigeon bigot on this forum.

Pigeon's have far better vision than George W. Bush. Any comparison to him is an insult far beyond any they merit. What's next, Robert? Shall you call them "rats with wings"?

Might I remind you that pigeons served in WWI and WWII as carriers of critical messages over enemy lines at great risk to life and limb...er, wing?

Please note these veteran pigeons have NO veteran benefits? Had they any benefits, Bush would likely cut them.

So...go easy on the birds.


Regards,


Steve

 

[PeachMonkey]

I have similar feelings about gay civil unions (since we're talking about a legal thing here, not the perspective of individual religions) as I do to abortion (woah! hot topic!). If you don't want one, don't have one. If you don't want a gay union, by all means, abstain! But please don't tell other couples who love each other - and some have been together for decades - that they shouldn't.

I definitely agree with you about gay union.

I'm also pro-choice, but at the risk of thread gankage, I will point out that it is not intellectually consistent to compare the two viewpoints. Letting gay people get married, even if you think they're abominations in the eye of your particular sky-god, doesn't really harm you (or anyone else).

If, however, you happen to believe that abortion involves *murdering human beings*, then you're not likely to be comfortable with "live and let live" on that particular issue.

 

[PeachMonkey]

Once again, it's a helluva lot easier to blame leftists and relativists than it is to examine the material relations of production in the present day.

I've never actually engaged in a discussion with someone who attacked Marx who had actually read *anything* Marx and/or Engels (or any of their followers, or any scholars studying their works) had written. Usually, they based their diatribes off of a screed from the John Birch Society.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

The REAL threat of Gay marriage, as I see it, might be that Gays might eventually have lower divorce rates than those Barna lists. That would be embarrassing.

The other significant danger would be that Carson Kressley might get married, settle down, and leave "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". I mean...dang...the guy KNOWS clothes. Slobs like me will be lost without him.

Steve, you had be laughing my butt off with these. First point - "funny 'cause it's true!" (or may be). Second, I'm just amused by the thought of Carson settling down and not being his over-the-top self.

Well, as always...the economy's screwed (sorry, the economy's actually fine, providing you're rich), we're tangled up in at least one idiotic wars, one-third of Americans have no health insurance, our educational system sucks, the Prez has the vision and decency of pigeon ****....

Time to git on after them gay people!!!

Point taken, Robert.

And, PeachMonkey

I'm also pro-choice, but at the risk of thread gankage, I will point out that it is not intellectually consistent to compare the two viewpoints.

This is true. My comment was not really intellectually consistent with the two topics, but is my feeling on both of those issues.

All these folks, keeping me honest.

 

[Rob Broad]

Have you ever noticed how Marriage and Carriage rhyme. They are also very similar, you are hitched either way.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Steve, you had be laughing my butt off with these.

Feisty, I note that whenever anybody writes anything funny, you laugh your butt off. I must observe that your butt is somewhat poorly attached to your hips.

Might I suggest velcro?

Better yet, use duct tape. I have five rolls that I ended up not using in the War on Terra, and you're welcome to them.

Peachmonkey...insofar as Birchers and Marx, I've been thinking of starting my own organization...the John Birch Communist Society. It will be made up largely of polarized totalitarians whose world views are narrow, but highly conflicted. Prospective members have to be willing to take a pledge reflecting their willingness to submit to cognitive dissonance.

The bumper sticker for that one should really cause some confusion, don't you think?


Regards,


Steve

 

[PeachMonkey]

I've been thinking of starting my own organization...the John Birch Communist Society.

Sounds great to me, Steve. I call dibs on the "Pro-gun, Anti-War" stickers!

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Feisty, I note that whenever anybody writes anything funny, you laugh your butt off. I must observe that your butt is somewhat poorly attached to your hips.

Might I suggest velcro?

Better yet, use duct tape. I have five rolls that I ended up not using in the War on Terra, and you're welcome to them.

It's true - I keep losing that dang thing! Luckily, I usually just sit down on it and find it wedged in the couch cushions. Sulking.

I hear there is now clear duct tape, for the functional yet fashionable person. Then no-one will know that I keep laughing my *** off of my body. :ultracool