F
I sparred with someone from that school some years back and was impressed.
OP
fist of fury
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- #3
Really? Did you ever spar a mantis guy before that?
It was the one and only time. This was a workout, not a tournament, and he also spoke with me at great length about the theories of praying mantis. I was impressed and would enjoy seeing and learning more.
OP
fist of fury
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That must have been fun. I'd love to work out with a mantis practioner it would be quite a learning experience.
OP
theneuhauser
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- #6
the hardest thing to get used to is our simultaneous striking and blocking, if you can figure that out, then youve got us mantis guys wired
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fist of fury
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That would make for an interesting time since we have the same
simultaneous striking and blocking techniques also. Mantis is a cool style I wish we had more of an M.A variety here.
simultaneous striking and blocking techniques also. Mantis is a cool style I wish we had more of an M.A variety here.
OP
theneuhauser
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i wouldnt say they are the same techniques. you are talking about wing chun, right? probably the use of the feet is more closely related with the two styles. ive sparred with a few wc guys, and we were both very aware of eachother's low kicks even in close! its a different experience, very rare when someone can be up close with a low kicker and not get damaged badly.
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Chiduce
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I have found the praying mantis system to be not only unique, but produce a striking resemblence to many other styles. In fact even quan fa or ch'uan fa or kenpo. The internal fist law of the mantis system incorporates many styles; i have discovered! This system combines techniques of the white crane system including pheonix eye fist, sticky hands and feet of the wing chun system, tai chi, chi kung, dim mak, holistic health and healing, and internal iron palm or the "cotton palm"! What distingushes the praying mantis system is;
1. It relies on internal power rather than external;
2. It has more thecniques than many othe systems and uses 'sticky hands and feet';
3. It uses the opponent's strength against him/her;
4. It is a "Soft Arm' kung fu system which many techniques rely on feeling only;
5. It formulas have a 2 or more person breakdown;
6. It teaches the independent useage or each limb, so that can operate separately or together;
7. It's fighting is relaxed, continuous, and flowing;
8. It's techniques are practiced exactly the way they are used to fight;
9. It is a shortcut system;
10. It has more than one power;
11. It practices high kicks, but favors low kicks for combat;
12. It uses dim mak;
13. It is based on taoist philosophy; yai/yang and the practitioner requires no conscious thought to react:
Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
1. It relies on internal power rather than external;
2. It has more thecniques than many othe systems and uses 'sticky hands and feet';
3. It uses the opponent's strength against him/her;
4. It is a "Soft Arm' kung fu system which many techniques rely on feeling only;
5. It formulas have a 2 or more person breakdown;
6. It teaches the independent useage or each limb, so that can operate separately or together;
7. It's fighting is relaxed, continuous, and flowing;
8. It's techniques are practiced exactly the way they are used to fight;
9. It is a shortcut system;
10. It has more than one power;
11. It practices high kicks, but favors low kicks for combat;
12. It uses dim mak;
13. It is based on taoist philosophy; yai/yang and the practitioner requires no conscious thought to react:
Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
OP
theneuhauser
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- #10
great stuff, chiduce!
i think im too lazy to provide quite so much as you have today, but i will say that some of the northern mantis systems do throw out some of the soft style emphasis and use a little more yang, specifically with standard type punches, and chop block/strikes.
but there is alot of variety between the various branches of that mantis family tree. if anyone knows a good link or a book that details the variety, i would really like to study up!
:asian:
i think im too lazy to provide quite so much as you have today, but i will say that some of the northern mantis systems do throw out some of the soft style emphasis and use a little more yang, specifically with standard type punches, and chop block/strikes.
but there is alot of variety between the various branches of that mantis family tree. if anyone knows a good link or a book that details the variety, i would really like to study up!
:asian:
How do you mean this--relatively quick and easy to learn?
OP
Chiduce
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- #12
Not necessarily so, i would say. I think this statement is in reference to the merging of many styles without having to study each particular style individually for a said amount of time. I think Yiliquan brought this out in his explanation of his system also. That it incorporated the understanding of other MA styles or systems to some effect. By the way, the original material in my post was just too much to qoute verbatum. I will quote from the article which i got this info. from originally; ( Master Gin Foon Mark and the Evolution of Jook Lum Praying Mantis) Kungfu Qigong Magazine July/ August Issue Page 41 Para; 5: "Why Master Mark give up the other forms of kungfu to concentrate on Praying Mantis? He thought of the techniques of other styles; one could theorectically improve forever, since this style was not based on muscular strength and fast reflexes. Moreover, it was one of the deadliest forms of self defense that Master Mark had run across. One reason for it's effectiveness was that it was invented for fighting by a puny monk to defend against a bullying, gigantic kungfu expert"; etc...,!
Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
OP
Tiger Beach
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- #13
This is so interesting.
Many years ago, a friend of mine (a few years older than me) taught me one hand form and many training techinques. His master would not take any students and he was supposed to keep what he was taught as a secret. I believe he taught me (other than out of friendship) also to hope I could be his practice partner. For that I had been for a few years.
At the time he told me his style was Taiji Plum Blossom Praying Mantis. I knew it was different from 7 Star Praying Mantis which was more popular in my hoemtown. One could easily found a a teacher for that style.
At the time I really thought he made up the name. I was thinking why called 'Taiji'?
Until more recently I saw some web sites and convinced such astyle really exists!
Too bad I could only remember small part of the form. I think it was call '#2 Essential Form', supposedly put together from other forms.
What Chidude described reminds me many similarities of what he taught me.
1. cottom ball practice.
He showed me how to tie 3 cotton balls in a string and strike punches so they ended a few inches away from those cotton balls. The swinging the the balls from the wind genereateed by your punches will indicate how powerful your punches are.
2. Practice 'Eagle Claw' by pressing 5 fingers against the wall and support your body and move lower and lower till you can do push ups. Finger tips form a 90 degree angle with your palm.
3. When your fingers are strong enough, you start to throw sand bags and catch. we went up to 15 kilo in weight. Eventually you are supposed to stuff bags with gravels.
4. The stances of this style are very, very low. I was also shown how to practice footwork on bricks laying in a circle. He said his master could walk on bricks standing up on the tall end. I did not see him do that with my own eyes. So I am not sure if he could.
I eventually moved on to learn a Shaolin style since his master would not take any students.
All I can say is this is a very powerful combat system. It emphasizes on close range fighting. Elbow and shoulder strikes are lethal.
I wished the master could teach me then. But I guess I was not that lucky ....
Many years ago, a friend of mine (a few years older than me) taught me one hand form and many training techinques. His master would not take any students and he was supposed to keep what he was taught as a secret. I believe he taught me (other than out of friendship) also to hope I could be his practice partner. For that I had been for a few years.
At the time he told me his style was Taiji Plum Blossom Praying Mantis. I knew it was different from 7 Star Praying Mantis which was more popular in my hoemtown. One could easily found a a teacher for that style.
At the time I really thought he made up the name. I was thinking why called 'Taiji'?
Until more recently I saw some web sites and convinced such astyle really exists!
Too bad I could only remember small part of the form. I think it was call '#2 Essential Form', supposedly put together from other forms.
What Chidude described reminds me many similarities of what he taught me.
1. cottom ball practice.
He showed me how to tie 3 cotton balls in a string and strike punches so they ended a few inches away from those cotton balls. The swinging the the balls from the wind genereateed by your punches will indicate how powerful your punches are.
2. Practice 'Eagle Claw' by pressing 5 fingers against the wall and support your body and move lower and lower till you can do push ups. Finger tips form a 90 degree angle with your palm.
3. When your fingers are strong enough, you start to throw sand bags and catch. we went up to 15 kilo in weight. Eventually you are supposed to stuff bags with gravels.
4. The stances of this style are very, very low. I was also shown how to practice footwork on bricks laying in a circle. He said his master could walk on bricks standing up on the tall end. I did not see him do that with my own eyes. So I am not sure if he could.
I eventually moved on to learn a Shaolin style since his master would not take any students.
All I can say is this is a very powerful combat system. It emphasizes on close range fighting. Elbow and shoulder strikes are lethal.
I wished the master could teach me then. But I guess I was not that lucky ....
Thanks for sharing!
OP
Tiger Beach
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To continue my story on this Taiji Mantis master. This art had been passed on to him within the family. And his family is orignally from Cang Zhou of Shangdong Province.
This is a definitely an internal style. The 'Qi Gong/Qing Gong' demonstrated by him and his students are amasing.
After I practiced my Shaolin for a few years and went back to see my friend we did some sparring. His fingers were so strong, when he caught my wrists he almost broke it.
One single move he taguht me before he could use it to such perfection. This is a move in which you jump kick and both hands poke your opponent's eyes in a crane hand form and right foot step-kick his heart. Now his fingers grabbed both my shoulders and his right foot on my heart and actually hang his body weight on me. I did not remember to feel his heavy weight. He jokingly said 'you are dead!'.
He then went on to tell me that his master went into hiding. He challenged and beat so many local masters of other styles and made himself public ememy #1 in Wushu community in our city. 'Red Guards' associated with those defeated masters were searching to kill him with guns. That was the Cultural revolution time.
It turned out later one of his students hid him in his fianci's home in the countryside so he escaped being killed. This student (I can't remember his name any more and I was not a insider anyway) developed into the best among all students. It is said that when he was lying on the beach, 4 of other students tried to lift him off the sand and failed.
About the techniques, this style has a lot of good sparring exercises. My favorite was two stand close to each other shoudler to shoulder, front foot behind the partner's front foot. Front hand puches to partners' wait area. The other player will deflect (not blocking and more like Taiji's warding off) and front leg strike at the same time. If both players are at the same level, it looks really funny because you two would turn in circle. If not one of them would get hit and fall. All the time the hands move in a sticky matter. Any time you lose your opponent's hands you know you will get hit.
This can be done slowly and then faster and faster till you do it subconciously. I practiced this exercise so many times, even now I can still do it well. Very good exercise.
Sorry for the long post. You guys just woke up some of my long lost memory.
This is a definitely an internal style. The 'Qi Gong/Qing Gong' demonstrated by him and his students are amasing.
After I practiced my Shaolin for a few years and went back to see my friend we did some sparring. His fingers were so strong, when he caught my wrists he almost broke it.
One single move he taguht me before he could use it to such perfection. This is a move in which you jump kick and both hands poke your opponent's eyes in a crane hand form and right foot step-kick his heart. Now his fingers grabbed both my shoulders and his right foot on my heart and actually hang his body weight on me. I did not remember to feel his heavy weight. He jokingly said 'you are dead!'.
He then went on to tell me that his master went into hiding. He challenged and beat so many local masters of other styles and made himself public ememy #1 in Wushu community in our city. 'Red Guards' associated with those defeated masters were searching to kill him with guns. That was the Cultural revolution time.
It turned out later one of his students hid him in his fianci's home in the countryside so he escaped being killed. This student (I can't remember his name any more and I was not a insider anyway) developed into the best among all students. It is said that when he was lying on the beach, 4 of other students tried to lift him off the sand and failed.
About the techniques, this style has a lot of good sparring exercises. My favorite was two stand close to each other shoudler to shoulder, front foot behind the partner's front foot. Front hand puches to partners' wait area. The other player will deflect (not blocking and more like Taiji's warding off) and front leg strike at the same time. If both players are at the same level, it looks really funny because you two would turn in circle. If not one of them would get hit and fall. All the time the hands move in a sticky matter. Any time you lose your opponent's hands you know you will get hit.
This can be done slowly and then faster and faster till you do it subconciously. I practiced this exercise so many times, even now I can still do it well. Very good exercise.
Sorry for the long post. You guys just woke up some of my long lost memory.
Please, post more! These are fascinating anecdotes.
OP
theneuhauser
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- #17
heres a little training tidbit,
we use small medicine balls to strengthen forearm muscles. youve gotta grip it with a hook arm or a mantis hand. with light weight (5-20 lbs) you add hooking motion with the arms ( out, down and back) and with heavy stuff, you just try not to drop it. ive heard that some old school training included using both arms in this manner to hoist sections of timber (12-18 inches in diameter). strong forearms make your hooking techniques very effective.
we use small medicine balls to strengthen forearm muscles. youve gotta grip it with a hook arm or a mantis hand. with light weight (5-20 lbs) you add hooking motion with the arms ( out, down and back) and with heavy stuff, you just try not to drop it. ive heard that some old school training included using both arms in this manner to hoist sections of timber (12-18 inches in diameter). strong forearms make your hooking techniques very effective.
OP
Tiger Beach
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- #18
I also remember the short stick exercise-very similar to what I see some Chen Taiji players practice - a Taiji Ruler.
I found throwing the sand bag to be very effective training. Two players face each other about 20 ft apart. The thrower grab the bag by biting the fingers into a corner of the bag, then pull back and down, over the shoulder and back to the front of the body. After this circle, the bad is released. The throwing is just like a elbow or should strike. You have to have a lot of internal energy, rooting and explosive power to send the bag to you partner. The catcher will meet the bag with his fingers grabbing a corner of the bag but yeilding to the bag flying direction and then pull. This will repeat the throwing action.
After you go up in weight throwing the bags, you will be amazed the kind of power you have when doing elbow/should strikes. You can really send people flying and internally hurt.
The other interesting thing I notice, they do not do static leg pressing almost everyone else does for stretching. They stand against a wall, both feet close to each other in one line the front foot step press the wall and then try to straighten your front leg.
This stretching is said to also build power for kicking in addtional to increase flexibility.
I have not see any other style do stretching like that. Very unique.
I found throwing the sand bag to be very effective training. Two players face each other about 20 ft apart. The thrower grab the bag by biting the fingers into a corner of the bag, then pull back and down, over the shoulder and back to the front of the body. After this circle, the bad is released. The throwing is just like a elbow or should strike. You have to have a lot of internal energy, rooting and explosive power to send the bag to you partner. The catcher will meet the bag with his fingers grabbing a corner of the bag but yeilding to the bag flying direction and then pull. This will repeat the throwing action.
After you go up in weight throwing the bags, you will be amazed the kind of power you have when doing elbow/should strikes. You can really send people flying and internally hurt.
The other interesting thing I notice, they do not do static leg pressing almost everyone else does for stretching. They stand against a wall, both feet close to each other in one line the front foot step press the wall and then try to straighten your front leg.
This stretching is said to also build power for kicking in addtional to increase flexibility.
I have not see any other style do stretching like that. Very unique.
I have to say, I have studied many Kung Fu "styles" and have found none as personaly rewarding and impressive as Praying Mantis. I study 7 Star Praying Mantis and love it! I was impressed by it and that is how I began to study it.
7sm
7sm
I was impressed by mantis style too, but I've never been near an instructor.
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