Makiwara or Free-Standing Bag?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by JasonASmith, Nov 5, 2006.

  1. JasonASmith

    JasonASmith Black Belt

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    Hello All,
    I'm in a bit of a quandary, so any help will be appreciated...
    My practice space is in my basement, and it has a VERY low ceiling(about 6 feet in total height), so a hanging bag is out of the question...
    That leaves one of the water(or sand) filled free-standing bags...
    My quandary is if I want to go with one of those bags, or should I stay traditional and get one of the wall-mounted "clapper" Makiwaras.
    I consider what I am learning to be a traditional style of Shotokan, and I do like the thought of training in a manner that's somewhat similar to the original intent, however the flexibility of one of those bags is a big plus to me, as well...
    I can't put a Makiwara outside either(the neighbours already think that we're strange!), however, I came across a Makiwara that is spring-loaded and on a steel base...I guess that you bolt it into the floor, which would work(because I don't care about the floor that much!)
    Any thoughts, recommendations?
     
  2. KOROHO

    KOROHO Green Belt

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    You will get different results from the bag and the makiwara. If you have room, you may want to do both.

    First, I don't like the wall mounted makiwara. With the traditional method of putting the post inthe ground, there is atleast some give to it. They don't just get stuck in the ground, the hold is dug, the post placed and a rock on the front side towrds the bottom and a nother rock higher up on the back side. The spring loaded one on a steel base sounds like a good idea.

    Using the makiwara will of course harden your hands and help develop focus, etc.

    I use the free standing, water filled base from Century. I like this because I can kick and punch and do various drills. The drawback is that they do break, so use sand if you keep it in the basement. Using the bag, you will not get the same hand conditioning as the makiwara, although using one of the heavey canvass bags can get you that if you don't use gloves.
     
  3. fnorfurfoot

    fnorfurfoot Senior Master

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    One thing that I find to be frustrating with the free standing bags is that you end up chasing them around the room. Which on the one hand, keeps you moving. But on the other hand, if you are working on a particular kick or combination, you have to stop what you are doing to reposition the bag to where you want it in the room.
     
  4. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

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    I agree with going with both if you have room. Both are used for different things
     
  5. IWishToLearn

    IWishToLearn 3rd Black Belt

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    I use an Ultraman from the Karate Connection. :)
     
  6. Robert Lee

    Robert Lee Brown Belt

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    Have you thought of getting a workout partener then some kicking pads punching shields thia pads to get a workout that way. You will even at times be more encouraged to get your workout in
     
  7. KOROHO

    KOROHO Green Belt

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    Excellent point about these.
    Plus, if your basement floor is concrete the bottom of the base will wear out. I got some carpet strips for my floor. I hit on it until it slid to the end of the carpet, then went to the other side and kept hitting until it got back to the other end again.
     
  8. JasonASmith

    JasonASmith Black Belt

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    That would be the ideal, of course...
    Unfortunately, I doubt that that would happen...
    Who knows? Maybe someone will volunteer to take a beating...
     
  9. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    If you want to get the feel of hitting, then I'd suggest taking a heavy bag, and placing it against the wall, where one of the studs are located. Secure the bag to the wall, with the base about 3 feet above the ground. This can be done with chains, and also an old belt (to secure the base).

    This way, you get both aspects, from one bag.
     
  10. twendkata71

    twendkata71 Black Belt

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    I personally prefer the traditional makiwara. You can get the ones that bold into the floor with concrete screws. I also like the BOB striking models. The one of from the karate connection is good too.
    The nice makiwara stand is a bit expensive. You can perchanse on from the ISKF web site, the Shureido web site(the one at the main store on Okinawa, and there are other places like the USAKF web site to order from.
    The spring loaded wall mount I have never tried. I can't say that it would not work.
    If you go to LOWE's or HOME DEPOT you will find most of the things you need to make your own makiwara, except for the pad. If you want to go "old school" you can take a cloth rug, fold it over the top of the makiwara and rap it in sisal rope. It is a bit ruff on the hands, but your sensei should show you the proper way to strike the makiwara as to not shred your hands. If you have a friend that has welding skills and a wood shop you can create all sorts of makiwara combinations.
    FYI, my neighbors think I am a bit strange for punching the makiwara out in the back garden area. But, I am training for me and care little for what the neighbors think anyway.
    Good luck and happy punching.
     
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  11. JasonASmith

    JasonASmith Black Belt

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    Thanks for the info, and maybe I'll just say "to hell with the neighbours!" and go for it...
     
  12. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    It may be that way for you in your neighborhood, but in mine they will take a shot at you or bring over the boys to "have a talk."
     
  13. pstarr

    pstarr Master Black Belt

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    If you can't have both, build the makiwara!
     
  14. Brandon Fisher

    Brandon Fisher Master Black Belt

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    I agree on the makiwara I am a big supporter of makiwara training. I highly encourage it in my students but only one uses it everyday other than me even that has been slow lately since I missed a break trying to break a patio block that was very wet underneath and didn't notice it. Shureido has a makiwara that you place on a floor base that doesn't bolt into the floor however the platform moves a bit on you.

    [​IMG]
    This is the makiwara I have in my dojo.
     
  15. Boomer

    Boomer Blue Belt

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    It is my experience that makiwara training is best done in the dojo, unless one is already familiar with how to use a makiwara. I've been studying martial arts for quite a while, and have seen some gruesome looking hands mangled on makiwara because of "home schooling".

    The thai pad drills were an excellent notion, also, and you do have kickboxers in your dojo, Jason, that would be willing to show you some drills. Larry Bailey is especially good with this...

    Personally, I hate the wavemaster, for all the reasons stated above. Also, if you adjust the height on it, it tends to fall over when you pound it.

    Overall, the best training I had in home was a padded "mook jung", or "wing chun dummy". It had just enough padding to keep you from hurting yourself, and gave me more surface area to strike than just the makiwara's small surface. The Ultraman seems similar to this. These items though, tend to get a bit pricey.
     
  16. JasonASmith

    JasonASmith Black Belt

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    Thanks, Sempai
    Maybe I'll hit Mr. Bailey up for some drills....
     
  17. chinto

    chinto Senior Master

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    my sugestion would be go with the makawara, but get instruction in the use and training with it. Like any tool or training aid you can injure yourself if you do not know how to use the tool. but i think it will do at least as well as any heavy bag would for you and does better then a heavy bag for meany things.
     
  18. twendkata71

    twendkata71 Black Belt

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    I like both.but I prefer the makiwara.
     
  19. seasoned

    seasoned MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Makiwara or Free-Standing Bag?
    Both the free standing bag and the Makiwara will develop power, in fact any resistance will. But to develop the one punch type of power that the old masters felt you needed to win a battle, then, “enter the Makiwara.” It starts with the spring action, because of the way it is built. It allows you to put power into it but does not allow you to over extend. In fact the way it springs back, encourages you to learn how to rebound your punch. At the moment of contact there is an immediate connection that happens within our structure that is felt down to the ground. It is this connection that is hard to feel when we are bobbing and weaving on the free standing bag. It is this feeling that we must feel and train with before we can begin to train with any moving target. Many a GoJu master felt that all you needed was Sanchin, Makiwara, and one good kata, and you could take that into battle. In any art you are looking for some kind of set-up so you can finish the fight with one stroke. With the Makiwara it is the punch.
     
  20. chinto

    chinto Senior Master

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    well they did not expect every strike to finish the confrentation, but yes i agree that makawara is my prefered way to train for focous and for power and to "punch through" the target. you were trained then and now to use some techniques to set up that last strike, but makawara will teach you focous and power and condition the bones and hands to deliver the force to do what must be done.123
     

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