Makers of true historic swords and other weaons?

Kframe

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Hi, for my own betterment and knowledge I plan on getting involved in ARMA as side hobby. I was looking for information on who makes Quality, custom or not, swords, daggars, shields and armor. Now im starting my own work in leather working, so eventually my goal is to build my skill so I can make my own cuir bouilli armor pieces. Tho im way far away from that, as im only a novice. Thank fully I live near a tandy leather outlet, and have accsess to all sorts of training stuff. So If you could point me to some custom makers or non custom makers of historic quality weapons id be grateful.
 

chinto

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check with the SCA in your aria, I cuir bouilli'd leather for armor at times and it worked well. for ARMA I would do what I did for SCA too, and that is Splint the leather cuir Bouilli with steel splints. I would check with Michael Z. Williamson if your in the USA.. there are some others but some have stopped making blades. I understand that Steel Wolf quit making swords at least. he made a very very good combat capable weapon.
 

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Hi, for my own betterment and knowledge I plan on getting involved in ARMA as side hobby. I was looking for information on who makes Quality, custom or not, swords, daggars, shields and armor. Now im starting my own work in leather working, so eventually my goal is to build my skill so I can make my own cuir bouilli armor pieces. Tho im way far away from that, as im only a novice. Thank fully I live near a tandy leather outlet, and have accsess to all sorts of training stuff. So If you could point me to some custom makers or non custom makers of historic quality weapons id be grateful.

http://www.albion-swords.com/
Albion is rated very very highly with regard to accuracy of their construction and quality of their work, they aren't custom so their pieces are more readily available.

http://armor.com
Arms and Armor also has a very good reputation.

http://www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fletcher/Welcome.html
A great cutler is Christian Fletcher, I love his work, it provides a nice compromise for custom hilt/scabbard work on a production blade.
 
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Kframe

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Thanks all, I cant wait to check them out. Ill look into them.
 

jks9199

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Hi, for my own betterment and knowledge I plan on getting involved in ARMA as side hobby. I was looking for information on who makes Quality, custom or not, swords, daggars, shields and armor. Now im starting my own work in leather working, so eventually my goal is to build my skill so I can make my own cuir bouilli armor pieces. Tho im way far away from that, as im only a novice. Thank fully I live near a tandy leather outlet, and have accsess to all sorts of training stuff. So If you could point me to some custom makers or non custom makers of historic quality weapons id be grateful.

A small suggestion... Acceptable quality historical armor and weaponry is rather expensive. It's also very easy to spend quite a lot of money on something that turns out to be inadequate and sub-standard, though it looks good. You may wish to wait until you've worked with the folks at ARMA a bit and get their guidance for what is worth the investment. And when you should purchase it... For example, were you to begin training in most schools of iaido or other Japanese sword arts, you'd probably be advised against purchasing even a dull practice blade, let alone a shinken or live blade, for several years. Something tells me that the folks at ARMA probably have similar advice...
 
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Kframe

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You might be correct JKS. Problem im going to face with Arma is that ill be the only person practicing it for about a 4 hour drive one direction. Apparently unlike SCA, which arma does not indulge in, there are not many ARMA places around yet. So I would be doing there home study stuff. Thankfully they include source material and much help. I wont be doing much sparring, tho I think they recommend wooden swords to start off with.. Thankfully im not a total newb to sword play, I fenced in college so, hopefully that will give me a little edge up.. Missing fencing now...
 

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There is sword-specific internet forum that has a very good reputation.

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/forum.php

Hi, for my own betterment and knowledge I plan on getting involved in ARMA as side hobby. I was looking for information on who makes Quality, custom or not, swords, daggars, shields and armor. Now im starting my own work in leather working, so eventually my goal is to build my skill so I can make my own cuir bouilli armor pieces. Tho im way far away from that, as im only a novice. Thank fully I live near a tandy leather outlet, and have accsess to all sorts of training stuff. So If you could point me to some custom makers or non custom makers of historic quality weapons id be grateful.
 

jks9199

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You might be correct JKS. Problem im going to face with Arma is that ill be the only person practicing it for about a 4 hour drive one direction. Apparently unlike SCA, which arma does not indulge in, there are not many ARMA places around yet. So I would be doing there home study stuff. Thankfully they include source material and much help. I wont be doing much sparring, tho I think they recommend wooden swords to start off with.. Thankfully im not a total newb to sword play, I fenced in college so, hopefully that will give me a little edge up.. Missing fencing now...

ARMA and the SCA have rather different takes on what they do. They're not quite antithetical to each other, as I understand it, but there are some pretty big differences in mindset. Loosely like comparing sport martial artists with a koryu tradition, maybe.
 
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Kframe

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Your right about that, JKS. Arma does not do ANY dress up in armor and re enact stuff. Ill keep you guys posted on what material I get after I join, tho it may take a while.
 

lklawson

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You might also want to look into the HEMA Alliance, good information from that group.

http://hemaalliance.com/

And their forum:

http://hemaalliance.com/discussion/index.php
+1

There is more than one way to skin a cat and ARMA ain't the only game out there. I'll give you that they're probably the widest recognized, but there are plenty of others. And, FWIW, the SCA may not be all bad either. Many "Kingdoms" and "Barronies" etc. now have a place for HEMA. I have several friends who teach HEMA at PENNSIC and other SCA events. It costs you nothing to check with your local chapter and find out if they have a branch that does HEMA locally.

As for what swords you need: Honestly, you want to get that input from whomever your teacher is. Unlike Iaido or Kenjitsu, you'll probably be handling steel pretty quickly (likely rebated steel) but you'll also be handling wooden "wasters" too, probably immediately. For the most part of your practice, you'll most likely want a "beater" sword. To be 100% honest, you don't really need a "completely historically accurate reproduction." What you need is a sword that has the same dimensions and handling characteristics as a historic sword. Often this means near custom reproductions, but not always. An example is the difference between a peened tang and a screw-on. The latter is historically inaccurate but reduces the cost of production, gives repair and replacement options, and doesn't typically impact handling characteristics.

Balance, taper, fuller, and other elements of the blade become more important the more skilled you become. A blade that feels fine to a beginner may be a pig to an experienced practitioner (Cold Steel swords have a reputation for this). This brings us back to "entry level beater swords" again. Many swordsmen go through several swords before they find one that seems to "fit" them best. There's a wide variety of blades, grips, cross-guards, etc. Further, there are different traditions which favor certain details of the blade above others. I'm not talking just German vs. Italian Longsword stuff alone.

Step 1: Get an instructor, even if it's an instructor that you can only visit once a month or so.

Step 2: Ask him what "Starter" and "Entry Level" gear he recommends, including for solo practice.

Actually, there are steps before that, such as deciding exactly what HEMA weapon you want to study, then which style (if it's even available) because there's a FREAKING BIG difference between French Smallsword and Italian Smallsword (never-mind Spanish Rapier!).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Kframe

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Iklawson, There are no chapters for anything with in several hours of me. I would be practicing mostly on my own and with a friend. Tho my combatives instructor would likely have no issue with working me on the unarmed and dagger stuff.
 
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Kframe

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I was on the HEMA website and have a question. Are they just a alliance of members or do they provide training materials. Their website is not clear on that.
 

jks9199

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+1

There is more than one way to skin a cat and ARMA ain't the only game out there. I'll give you that they're probably the widest recognized, but there are plenty of others. And, FWIW, the SCA may not be all bad either. Many "Kingdoms" and "Barronies" etc. now have a place for HEMA. I have several friends who teach HEMA at PENNSIC and other SCA events. It costs you nothing to check with your local chapter and find out if they have a branch that does HEMA locally.

Didn't mean to imply either that ARMA was the only game in town, or that nobody at SCA mixes with the ARMA or HEMA folks. Just that they do come from different places.
 

jks9199

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Iklawson, There are no chapters for anything with in several hours of me. I would be practicing mostly on my own and with a friend. Tho my combatives instructor would likely have no issue with working me on the unarmed and dagger stuff.

If you try to work without any guidance, the odds are great that you won't succeed. Could you have learned karate from a book, without a teacher's guidance? I'm not saying it's impossible, but many of the historical works I've looked at presume a certain base of information to start with. Kind of like if I handed you a senior-level college textbook on something; it likely presumes some knowledge and understanding from the lower level classes, right?
 
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Kframe

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Jks, I have fenced, and know the basic positions. I do Both standing and ground grappling. So I feel I have a decent foundation for studying.. Honestly these groups have to get started in areas by someone.. There is literally NO ONE for HOURS around me that does this stuff.. It has to start some were.
 
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Kframe

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Ok so I was wrong... I found a SCA group in my home town just now...... They claim to do training but I have no idea if its quality or not.. Time for a Email!!
 

Chris Parker

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Jks, I have fenced, and know the basic positions. I do Both standing and ground grappling. So I feel I have a decent foundation for studying.. Honestly these groups have to get started in areas by someone.. There is literally NO ONE for HOURS around me that does this stuff.. It has to start some were.

.....and..... did you ever consider that those who started the groups travelled for "hours" (if not more!) to get enough training to start a group? What I'm saying is that your situation isn't special, you don't get things just because you want them without you putting in some effort and offering some sacrifice. If you do have a group around you, and you don't like their approach, either you travel, or you don't do it.
 

lklawson

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Jks, I have fenced, and know the basic positions.
Which would be somewhat helpful if you wanted to study Smallsword, Court Sword, Dueling Saber, and sometimes some little bit of Rapier work. It's not very helpful if you're interested in Longsword, Arming Sword, Messer, any ax from Tomahawk to Lochaber, Rondel, Spear, Mace, or Flail.

Define what it is you want to study.

I do Both standing and ground grappling.
Medieval grappling is often very different from modern grappling because it had a different environment (armour and swords) and different goals. Renaissance and later wrestling, up through late 19th Century, was very (VERY!) regional and also often had different base assumptions about environment and goals. Catch-as-Catch-Can wrestling is closest to modern "grappling" (as is most commonly understood) but Catch, even old style "Loose Wrestling" styles of Catch, isn't Sambo, BJJ, or Judo. If you have a good sense of balance, timing, and body movement, such as can be developed in Judo (for instance), then that can go a long way to helping you understand Medieval "combat wrestling" or Paschen's wrestling manual but there will still be lots of "contextual" issues that you'll have to work out or have explained to you.

So I feel I have a decent foundation for studying.. Honestly these groups have to get started in areas by someone..
True enough. Most of us who started our own local group would make special effort to travel, some times long distances, to get instruction and correction several times a year. When I started, I was making trips of 3-5 hours drive about every two months or so.

There is literally NO ONE for HOURS around me that does this stuff.. It has to start some were.
And where is that, again?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

lklawson

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Ok so I was wrong... I found a SCA group in my home town just now...... They claim to do training but I have no idea if its quality or not.. Time for a Email!!
You might be in luck. Most likely the training that they're referring to is SCA "Heavy Combat." This isn't particularly close to Medieval fighting traditions but it is really well optimized for their faux combat sport. If their training is SCA Heavy Combat, then it's not what you've said you're interested in (not by a long shot). However, there is a chance that they do have a HEMA training group as well. Rapier and both the German and Italian Longsword material is taught as a "research" type thing in certain SCA clubs. From what I have been told by friends, the German Longsword is the more common of the three.

Worth a call to them, anyway. :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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