Lost Hyungs

[Master Ken]

Hi,

I read somewhere a while ago that there are two TSD hyungs that have sadly been lost in time because they where not passed on to trusted students or the instructors suddenly passed away.

can anyone shred some light on this please and and any relevant information that might be out in cyberland.

Pil Seung

Master Ken

 

[Lynne]

Are the two lost forms supposed to be Chil-Sung forms?

 

[Yossarian]

Was there not one called Hwa Sun? im sure ive read this somewhere. Also So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Guk Ki seem to be very rare and no one seems to know the correct versions.

 

[Master Ken]

Hi All,

That's correct.. So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Guk Ki.. that does ring a bell.

Thanks


Ken

 

[MBuzzy]

I've also heard of a series of 10 hyung that were supposedly only taught to Koreans.....don't know the names though.

 

[JWLuiza]

So Rim Jang Kwan is, AFAIK, a Shaolin Long Fist Form of Intermediate Difficulty. The other is Yang Style Short Form Tai Chi. So Rim Jang Kwan is the holy grail of traditional TSD.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

So Rim Jang Kwan is, AFAIK, a Shaolin Long Fist Form of Intermediate Difficulty. The other is Yang Style Short Form Tai Chi. So Rim Jang Kwan is the holy grail of traditional TSD.

...I must learn this form....heh...things like that pique my interest.

 

[Master Ken]

If So Rim Jang Kwan is a Shaolin Long Fist form and Tae Guk Ki a Tai Chi form, do they go by another name??.

With respect to the 10 hyungs taught to Korean only, I never heard of this at all, where did you hear about this.

Ken

 

[MBuzzy]

I first heard about the forms on here I think, but my instructor mentioned them as well. He couldn't remember the name though.

 

[JWLuiza]

If So Rim Jang Kwan is a Shaolin Long Fist form and Tae Guk Ki a Tai Chi form, do they go by another name??.

With respect to the 10 hyungs taught to Korean only, I never heard of this at all, where did you hear about this.

Ken

To answer Lynne and Yossarian: The Chil Sun and Hwa Sun hyung are not lost. They are taught by the SBDMDK school in the US and the World MDK worldwide.

Ken,

Yes, Tae Guk Kwan (not ki from what I have seen) is just called Yang Style 88-move Tai Chi or something like that. SRJK probably has a chinese name, but that didn't make it down from Hwang Ki who brought it back from China.

 

[MBuzzy]

To answer Lynne and Yossarian: The Chil Sun and Hwa Sun hyung are not lost. They are taught by the SBDMDK school in the US and the World MDK worldwide.

Hwa Sun is actually published in a few TSD and SBD books. The Chil Sungs though, were copyrighted by the US Soo Bahk Do Federation and are only partially published. The first 3 are easy to find within the USSBDF but you have to go GM Pak's books to find the next two and to the best of my knowledge, you have to be very high ranking and close to GM H.C. Hwang to learn Chil Sung 6 and 7 - but they're out there. Same problem with the Yuk Ro series of forms.

 

[Master Ken]

To answer Lynne and Yossarian: The Chil Sun and Hwa Sun hyung are not lost. They are taught by the SBDMDK school in the US and the World MDK worldwide.

Ken,

Yes, Tae Guk Kwan (not ki from what I have seen) is just called Yang Style 88-move Tai Chi or something like that. SRJK probably has a chinese name, but that didn't make it down from Hwang Ki who brought it back from China.

Excellent, thanks.

After my school broke with the WTSDA I went back to the way GM HK taught his hyungs, trying to get back to the source.

 

[JWLuiza]

Excellent, thanks.

After my school broke with the WTSDA I went back to the way GM HK taught his hyungs, trying to get back to the source.

Great! They probably resemble early shotokan/shito-ryu versions if you go back to how he originally practiced them. The MDK has VERY different body mechanics than they did in the 50s/60s. It's great having you on the board!

 

[Muwubu16858]

Here are 3 major chinese forms Hwang Kee learned and taught to few of his highest students, on of which was named Oh Sae Joon.

So Rim Jang Kwon (Shaolin long fist) is an intermediate form used in several chinese martial arts, including Tan Tui 12 Road, which is the style Hwang Kee learned in China(as he pronounced it, Dam Toi Ship Ee Ro(Dam Toi for short). Hwang Kee only learned 1 Tan tui form, along with the So Rim Jang Kwon form. He also learned one Yang style Tai Chi (Tae Geuk Kwon) form, which was the highest level form in Moo Duk Kwan until GM Hwang began to reformat his system and teach Chil Sung's, Yuk Ro's and Hwa Sun hyung. But a little secret, I've looked at alot of the new forms, and although Hwang Kee says his influence is Moo Yei Tobo Dang Ji(korean text circa 1700's), the newer forms by Hwang Kee are very much influenced by Tan Tui and Tai Chi Chuan.

 

[JWLuiza]

Here are 3 major chinese forms Hwang Kee learned and taught to few of his highest students, on of which was named Oh Sae Joon.

So Rim Jang Kwon (Shaolin long fist) is an intermediate form used in several chinese martial arts, including Tan Tui 12 Road, which is the style Hwang Kee learned in China(as he pronounced it, Dam Toi Ship Ee Ro(Dam Toi for short). Hwang Kee only learned 1 Tan tui form, along with the So Rim Jang Kwon form. He also learned one Yang style Tai Chi (Tae Geuk Kwon) form, which was the highest level form in Moo Duk Kwan until GM Hwang began to reformat his system and teach Chil Sung's, Yuk Ro's and Hwa Sun hyung. But a little secret, I've looked at alot of the new forms, and although Hwang Kee says his influence is Moo Yei Tobo Dang Ji(korean text circa 1700's), the newer forms by Hwang Kee are very much influenced by Tan Tui and Tai Chi Chuan.

I don't think that's too big of a secret But some of the moves in Hwa Sun are pulled from the drawings in the MYTDJ. But obviously the Yuk Rho look very similar to the Tan Tui I'm learning right now.

 

[Master Ken]

Here are 3 major chinese forms Hwang Kee learned and taught to few of his highest students, on of which was named Oh Sae Joon.

So Rim Jang Kwon (Shaolin long fist) is an intermediate form used in several chinese martial arts, including Tan Tui 12 Road, which is the style Hwang Kee learned in China(as he pronounced it, Dam Toi Ship Ee Ro(Dam Toi for short). Hwang Kee only learned 1 Tan tui form, along with the So Rim Jang Kwon form. He also learned one Yang style Tai Chi (Tae Geuk Kwon) form, which was the highest level form in Moo Duk Kwan until GM Hwang began to reformat his system and teach Chil Sung's, Yuk Ro's and Hwa Sun hyung. But a little secret, I've looked at alot of the new forms, and although Hwang Kee says his influence is Moo Yei Tobo Dang Ji(korean text circa 1700's), the newer forms by Hwang Kee are very much influenced by Tan Tui and Tai Chi Chuan.

Thanks Michael, that is a lot of info for me to carry on researching into these forms. Now I just have to try and get some footage of these forms.

Respectfully

Master Ken

 

[Master Ken]

Here are 3 major chinese forms Hwang Kee learned and taught to few of his highest students, on of which was named Oh Sae Joon.

So Rim Jang Kwon (Shaolin long fist) is an intermediate form used in several chinese martial arts, including Tan Tui 12 Road, which is the style Hwang Kee learned in China(as he pronounced it, Dam Toi Ship Ee Ro(Dam Toi for short). Hwang Kee only learned 1 Tan tui form, along with the So Rim Jang Kwon form. He also learned one Yang style Tai Chi (Tae Geuk Kwon) form, which was the highest level form in Moo Duk Kwan until GM Hwang began to reformat his system and teach Chil Sung's, Yuk Ro's and Hwa Sun hyung. But a little secret, I've looked at alot of the new forms, and although Hwang Kee says his influence is Moo Yei Tobo Dang Ji(korean text circa 1700's), the newer forms by Hwang Kee are very much influenced by Tan Tui and Tai Chi Chuan.

So there are now three forms???

Oh Sae Joon
So Rim Jang Kwon
Tae Geuk Kwon

 

[Master Ken]

So there are now three forms???

Oh Sae Joon
So Rim Jang Kwon
Tae Geuk Kwon

Opps got that so wrong..

'Oh Sae Joon' is a person....

 

[MBuzzy]

some of the moves in Hwa Sun are pulled from the drawings in the MYTDJ. But obviously the Yuk Rho look very similar to the Tan Tui I'm learning right now.

But a little secret, I've looked at alot of the new forms, and although Hwang Kee says his influence is Moo Yei Tobo Dang Ji(korean text circa 1700's), the newer forms by Hwang Kee are very much influenced by Tan Tui and Tai Chi Chuan.

There is definately a very heavy Chinese influence in the Chil Sungs and Yuk Ros, but they also borrow pretty heavily from some of the Japanese and more traditional forms. They were initially intended to completely replace the Japanese based forms.

 

[Chizikunbo]

There are supposed to be two lost hyungs of the original Tang Soo Do of Hwang Kee KJN. They are SO RIM JANG KWON (Shaolin Long Fist) and TAE KEUK KWON (Tai Chi Chuan). So Rim Jang Kwan is said to be a begging to intermidiate level long fist form.
The interesting part is that neither of them are lost. Both are still in the original printing, in that of Soo Bahk Do Dae Kahm. TKK even has photos. SRJK has a full description. The SRJK was translated thanks to GM Charles Ferraro of the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan...it is just in somewhat archaic terms, and needs to be retranslated into physical movements.
Tae Keuk Kwon has long been identified by Master Henry Murphy as the Yang Style 88 form...this is actually a two man set one half being defensive, and the other offensive. The odd thing is that the creation of this form dates quite sometime after KJN Hwang Kee's time in China with his master Yang Kuk Jin (Yang Jeng Kou). Hwang Kee only demoed one half of the form in his SBD Dae Kahm, so it is presumable he only taught one half.

I've also heard of a series of 10 hyung that were supposedly only taught to Koreans.....don't know the names though.

This is indeed true, the forms are called "Ship Dahn Kum", they have not been taught in the US...oddly the Chil Sung and Yuk Rho hyungs were first taught in the US...There is a book in Korean entitled 'Soo Bahk Do' that has all 10 Ship Dahn Kum forms, along with all 6 Yuk Rho, and the Hwa Sun hyung with descriptions and photos...

There are actually 2 versions of Hwa Sun, but thats another story, reportedly the actual hyung was just recently taught by KJN H.C. Hwang to the USSBDMDKF Chil Dan candidates.

All together GM Hwang Kee created 24 forms, 7 Chil Sung, 6 Yuk Rho 1 Hwa Sun, and 10 Ship Dan Kum.

--josh