Looks like it is over

[grydth]

This gives me hope (83% of precincts reporting)
Obama 56,407,482 52% (DP 2004 59,028,444)
McCain 51,369,591 47% (RP 2004 62,040,610)
Nader 566,818 (2004 465,650)
Barr 434,375 (LP 2004 397,265)
Baldwin 157,859 (CP 2004 143,630)
McKinney 116,184 (GP 2004 119,859)


This makes me ashamed.
Arkansas Initiative 1: Ban on Gay Couples Adopting Children PASS
Arizona Proposition 102: Ban on Gay Marriage PASS
California Proposition 8: Ban on Gay Marriage PASS
Florida Amendment 2: Ban on Gay Marriage PASS


Only in America can a nation simultaneously push forward and plunge backwards.

I can only hope that Mr. Obama will be a catalyst for change, for acceptance, in this nation.

Not unique to the USA - - - Forward and backward at once - it's Yin and Yang.

Intelligence does not always equal tolerance, there being graphic examples of this throughout history.

Obama himself has to be accepted for real change, and he must accept his critics. I am hoping he is good on one of his central pledges to seek to unite the country, and I am hoping McCain is good on his concession speech.... it isn't 'only' gay rights that need acceptance. For the country to survive we must all learn to (re)accept each other.

 

[FearlessFreep]

The closing line from the classic Who song, of course.... but I'm thinking for better or worse, Obama will not at all be the same as the old Bush.

You are perhaps to self critical...Being cynical and skeptical is not the same as being uncaring... if you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.

Actually I tend to be highly self-critical. I asked my Sabumnim what my best trait was as a martial artist (not from ego, just wanted to know what I could build on) and he said it was ability for self-reflection that drove me to improvement.

But that's not really what I'm looking at here. In my time as being able to be employed, I've gone from Reagan to Bush I to Clinton to Bush II and the one thing I realize is that my life has pretty much been what I've made of it. My jobs, my career, my hobbies, my family, my home...the dreams I have had and the effort I have made and the relationships I have had have done more for my life, both good and bad, then who is sitting in the whitehouse. And right now most of my life is breaking my way, but that's not Bush's doing, and the times where I was getting paid more and the times I was unemployed were never the doing of whomever was in the whitehouse. They were my victories and my mistakes.

Most of America is like that. As a country we manage to muddle along fairly well over the course of time. Most of what happens, good and bad to most of us individually and all of us collectively is pretty much in spite of whomever is president. Because the president has a lot of power in some ways, but very little in others. Our current mortgage/financial situation is the results of several decisions made by several presidents from both parties over the course of a few decades. Every president gets blamed for what comes about on their term, but truthfully few of them are really directly responsible.

So my cynicism is mostly directed at the idea that as a country we are so messed up that we need a president who is going to fix it all.

 

[clfsean]

Welcome back to the Carter Administration

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Actually I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised in that in the end I believe Obama will be a centrist. He has quite a bit on his shoulders and being in the center will allow him to get the most done in a good manner for our country. Just my 02.

 

[Archangel M]

So my cynicism is mostly directed at the idea that as a country we are so messed up that we need a president who is going to fix it all.

That was a great post Freep, and this last part is exactly my thought too. The whole "country is so messed up" thing is like the stock market. Hear a bad news report and the country is going to hell, hear a bit of good news and build up unreasonable expectations. Its like complaining about the weather..too cold all winter long...too hot all summer long. people are funny. I have a good life and its good because I made it good and this country is what allowed it. Our situation is not NEW, no matter how the pundits spin it ( an African American Pres. is new Ill say that), a look back into even our recent past will show much harder times.

 

[Archangel M]

Actually I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised in that in the end I believe Obama will be a centrist. He has quite a bit on his shoulders and being in the center will allow him to get the most done in a good manner for our country. Just my 02.

I dont know...all his pre-campaign politics was pretty extreme left. I hope that seeing that about half the popular vote was against him will temper him in hopes of a re-election.

 

[Sukerkin]

That is indeed to be hoped. Previous history of people in power suggests otherwise tho' e.g. more people voted against than for the eventual elected president in the 2000 election .

Still, fingers crossed and all that and good luck to all of you, my MT friends and compatriots, in the years to come.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I dont know...all his pre-campaign politics was pretty extreme left. I hope that seeing that about half the popular vote was against him will temper him in hopes of a re-election.

Well only time will tell. However, every President wants to be reelected and centrist Presidents usually do better at that. Like him or not Obama is a very smart guy (that is a plus for all of us) so I imagine that he will try to work with everyone. I think the politics of ram it down your throat are a little out of style. Not only that but in the Senate they do not have a 60 Senator mark so the Democrats will have to work with the Republicans. So in the end a smart guy ie. Obama will probably work with everyone. It only serves his interest to do so.

 

[Big Don]

I'm not so supprised about Ark, Ari and Flo, doing that, but Cali? Hmm. That one does supprise me.

It shouldn't, unless it is the margin that surprises you. A few years ago we had a proposition on the ballot defining marriage as between one man and one woman and it passed with something like 74%. The courts ignoring the will of the people, somehow, was unpopular with the people, go figure...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I say, legistlate the inequality fully.
Limit marriage to only those capable of bearing children. (So nonfertial folks, no weddings for you), make being gay a death penalt crime, lock em up, start mass executions, take their land, property and what not.
I would hope the mass exodus of gays would hurt the country significantly.
Then, raise the rich tax back to 75%, and when Gates and Forbes and them pack up and pull out, we can all enjoy living in goverment home camps, eating gov. cheese and paying 3x our annual pay in taxes to support a total welfare state.

Not the America I want, but somewhere someone thinks it's a good idea.
I wish them a painful and prolonged life.

 

[Makalakumu]

No, it is the SAME, and that is really sad.

True dat, braddah!

 

[Makalakumu]

So you "Loved America" 9 years ago?

I thought America was a better place before 9/11, before Bush. Better, not perfect. It's time to move on. I'm just glad its over.

 

[Marginal]

I dont know...all his pre-campaign politics was pretty extreme left. I hope that seeing that about half the popular vote was against him will temper him in hopes of a re-election.

One would hope he doesn't ascribe to the current administration's position that they only are beholden to the people that directly voted for them.

 

[Big Don]

One would hope he doesn't ascribe to the current administration's position that they only are beholden to the people that directly voted for them.

Gee, I sure am glad I voted for Bush twice, when the stimulus checks came out I got $60,000 instead of the $600 you suckers got [/smartass response to dumb comment]

 

[Sukerkin]

Can you not find it in your heart to play nice for a while, Don?

Disagreements do not have to be packed with spines and venom - I would have thought that the past year or so would have shown quite clearly that such approaches do not lead to productive outcomes.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Never in my life have I decided in the voting booth, but when my six year old daughter looked up at me and asked me to vote for Obama, I saw that she had hope and loved her home. I cast my vote today for her...for myself. I've had eight years of self imposed cynicism and negativity. I'm going to start beleiving again for their sake.

Olivia, you got my vote tonight when I voted for your inspiration.

:asian:

:bangahead:
Maunakumu,
Hat's off to you for sharing that. People vote or not vote all the time, based on polls, commentary, rage, fear, ignorance, rumour, what-have-you. It's your vote and casting it out of love is one of the more inspiring things I've heard in a while.

 

[Marginal]

Gee, I sure am glad I voted for Bush twice, when the stimulus checks came out I got $60,000 instead of the $600 you suckers got [/smartass response to dumb comment]

Bolton stated that was the administration's policy flat out in interviews.

I also seem to remember certain senators of the Republic party refusing to hear counter arguments going so far as to cut mics and turn off the lights while members of the opposing party attempted to make their case etc.

Yes, this was the administration of the uniter.

 

[Archangel M]

You should cast your vote after some THOUGHT.

 

[Big Don]

Can you not find it in your heart to play nice for a while, Don?

Disagreements do not have to be packed with spines and venom - I would have thought that the past year or so would have shown quite clearly that such approaches do not lead to productive outcomes.

Does playing nice constitute ignoring the constant and often idiotic, or at the very least nonsensical, attacks of some on the Bush administration (in general) and President Bush himself (specifically)? The desire, of some to blame Bush for every single solitary bad thing that has occurred since the fall of man is tired. I'll be happy once Obama takes office, just for the fact that HE and the Democrat controlled congress will have to responsibility for things.

 

[Big Don]

Bolton stated that was the administration's policy flat out in interviews.

Post a link in affirmation of that, then.

I also seem to remember certain senators of the Republic party refusing to hear counter arguments going so far as to cut mics and turn off the lights while members of the opposing party attempted to make their case etc.

Like when the democrats recessed congress while republicans tried to fix the gas crisis?

Yes, this was the administration of the uniter.