Let's discuss TWC's central line.

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by Marnetmar, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Marnetmar

    Marnetmar Black Belt

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    Without getting into politics, what do you think of TWC's central line theory?



    Does it work? What are its advantages and drawbacks?

    My two cents: isn't this just what regular WC schools learn in Chum Kiu? KPM, can you clarify?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  2. TMA17

    TMA17 Blue Belt

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  3. Martial D

    Martial D 3rd Black Belt

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    The central line is just the shortest distance between your opponent and yourself. The ideal thing in WC is to align your center line with the central line while keeping your opponent from doing the same.
     
  4. wckf92

    wckf92 3rd Black Belt

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    so do the TWC folks think this "central line" idea is special and unique?
     
  5. Eric_H

    Eric_H Black Belt

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    Seems to be the idea of facing. Isn't that largely covered by Deui Ying/Jeui Ying?
     
  6. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    I agree. Not to open decades old wounds, but way back when.....in those initial magazine articles that William Cheung wrote to declare himself "Grandmaster" and the "true and sole" inheritor of the actual "Traditional" Wing Chun from Ip Man, this was one of the major points he tried to say distinguished it from "modified" Wing Chun. He explained "modified" Wing Chun as always facing completely square to the opponent and always operating on a centerline that cut the Wing Chun person in half symmetrically.

    At the time I was learning Augustine Fong's version of Ip Man Wing Chun and I distinctly remember being confused and surprised by what Cheung wrote in that article. Because I had learned that there was first a "motherline" that runs through the center of the body from the top of the head and down through to the floor....like the line that a ballerina spins around. Then there is the centerline that extends from your motherline to the opponent's motherline. If you are facing each other squarely, then it cuts both people in half symmetrically. But if you are facing at an angle, then the centerline is also at an angle. Next there is the attacking line and the defending line. Since the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, typically the attacking line will go straight from your center to the opponent's center and ends up on the actual centerline. The defense line extends from your motherline to the center of the oncoming weapon/attacking limb of the opponent. In the end, this is pretty much what Cheung was saying with his "central line" theory.

    So yeah, I think its all semantics.

    But I'm just a fake and charlatan and don't know anything. So don't listen to me.
     
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  7. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    ^^^^Pretty much. We use the terms vertical mid line, horizontal mid line, and centerline, all intersecting at a centerpoint (like an x, y, and z axis superimposed over the body), and then there's the connecting line that links your center with your opponent's center.

    http://www.povray.org/documentation/images/tutorial/handed.png

    The basic idea is too face your opponent so the your centerline tracks his center while his centerline is deflected and not aligned with your center!
     
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  8. TMA17

    TMA17 Blue Belt

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    ^ thats how it was explained to me. Where I go they stress fighting from the blind side a lot.
     
  9. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Motherline = Core
    Centerline = vertical plane emanating from the core forward. We have a single centerline.
    Central line = vertical plane running from my motherline to my opponent’s motherline.
    Facing = positioning my body so that my centerline and central lines are aligned at an angle to my opponent’s centerline. This allows me to have 6 major gates attacking into the opponent’s 3.
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    IMO, the principle of "front door - between arms" and "side door - outside arms" can fit MA principle better than the center-line principle. When you are in your opponent's

    - front door, you can separate his arms away from his body.
    - side door, you can guide his leading arm to jam his own back arm.

    Example of "front door" attack.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  11. TMA17

    TMA17 Blue Belt

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    In TWC,there is both. Through center and on blindside. (outside of arms).
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Do you think both are needed, or one can include the other?
     
  13. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Well, you can move straight into the center or you can angle into the inside on a 1/4 line.
     
  14. TMA17

    TMA17 Blue Belt

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    I'm still new to WC, but it appears that TWC likes to move to the outside (blindside) preferably when you can. So I'd want to have my center line on my opponents shoulder area. Sort of like a "T" shape. Other forms of WC seems to stress going up the middle. I'm always of the thought that you shouldn't limit yourself to any one way of doing things. My .02.
     
  15. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    We call it a "line", but technically you are absolutely right, Danny. If you are talking geometry, it functions like a plane. I think we use the term line kind of generically, just to keep things simple.

    Personally I really dislike the TWC terms centerline and central line because when said quickly, they sound the same to my old ears :(. I guess I should just shut up and be happy everybody isn't speaking Cantonese! :confused:
     
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  16. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yeah, when I'm explaining it I slow down and emphasize 'central line' sometimes I refer it as the action line or combat line.

    What do you call the line from your core to the opponent's core when not in facing?
     
  17. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I've been calling it "the connecting line".

    For me, that's a really important concept to work with since in our Escrima we blade our bodies. On the other hand, in our lineage of VT (coming from "WT") we normally fight facing our opponent's core. The VT plan is to either get off-line or deflect his centerline so he isn't facing our core.
     
  18. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    If you can get to their side-door, that's safer than the front door.

    ...Now if you are really sneaky, you can get around to their back door!
     
  19. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Thank you. Make sense.

    Same.
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    So you want to move to a spot that

    - both of your hands can reach to your opponent.
    - only one of your opponent's hands can reach you.

    You can only do this when you are on your opponent's "side door". WC also enters through the "front door". If your center line merges with your opponent's center line, whoever can control

    - inside, and
    - on top

    will have advantage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018

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