Last Poster #6

[dvcochran]

Unfortunately I know a bunch of people who ought to know better and still cry about the horses being rounded up.
If a private entity (rancher or what have you) would deal with thier lifestock like this, they'd be thrown in jail!

And yeah....PETA kills upward of 90 percent of perfectly fine companion animals that walk through the door at their ONLY facility in Virginia! As per their own paperwork filed!
And that are only the animals that make it there, and are not killed en route, and dumped behind businesses in trash dumpsters!

Rant over!

It is a classic left sided government/big organization mindset. They think they are the only one's who can do it (whatever it happens to be) right.

 

[granfire]

It is a classic left sided government/big organization mindset. They think they are the only one's who can do it (whatever it happens to be) right.

no, not that. but 30 years of fluff indoctrination has shaped the narrative, throw in some (fake) cowboy romantic in the pot, and you got that iconic creature, first cousin to Pegasus and Unicorn alike.
Never mind that shaggy knock kneed beast that rips the grasses out by the root!
Those are horse people who run farms!
The same people who would crucify you would you try to keep say, 100 horses at your farm!

Weird disconnect! Baffles me. I keep quiet when the topic comes up. I am too old school: Horses are grass eating meat critters. It was Ok for people to eat them through the 70s.
Affluenza has changed the mindset. I have not knowingly eaten horse, but from what I have been told, it's not bad! I'd have it over frog legs, or alligator, and definitely over squirrel!
(I do agree though: the slaughter process is a no-go. the ways to the facilities are too long. ALso the work of PETA and like minded organizations, some with criminal connections!)

But this is a long hot topic! We'd have to drink a lot of beer and wine, and burn a lot of steaks over which to discuss this!

 

[dvcochran]

no, not that. but 30 years of fluff indoctrination has shaped the narrative, throw in some (fake) cowboy romantic in the pot, and you got that iconic creature, first cousin to Pegasus and Unicorn alike.
Never mind that shaggy knock kneed beast that rips the grasses out by the root!
Those are horse people who run farms!
The same people who would crucify you would you try to keep say, 100 horses at your farm!

Weird disconnect! Baffles me. I keep quiet when the topic comes up. I am too old school: Horses are grass eating meat critters. It was Ok for people to eat them through the 70s.
Affluenza has changed the mindset. I have not knowingly eaten horse, but from what I have been told, it's not bad! I'd have it over frog legs, or alligator, and definitely over squirrel!
(I do agree though: the slaughter process is a no-go. the ways to the facilities are too long. ALso the work of PETA and like minded organizations, some with criminal connections!)

But this is a long hot topic! We'd have to drink a lot of beer and wine, and burn a lot of steaks over which to discuss this!

I'm down with that.
We used to sell hay to whoever would buy it and delivered some of it. I remember being disgusted with what I saw at one horse owners locations (I will not call it a farm). Way too many animals running around on a ball of dust. No grass at all, no feed/water troughs, no shade and very hungry and underfed animals . The horses knocked down the fence to get at the hay that was still on the trailer. Then I find out the guy lied to me and did not even have a tractor to unload the hay off my trailer. I was not going to leave the animals hungry so I helped him wrestle the double stacked hay off the trailer by hand. These were 5x5 rolls (if you know the difference you will get it). While unloading the hay I made small talk with the guy about his property and found out he had 12 horses on 3 acres. I helped him cobble his fence back up and got paid. I then preceded to let him know animal control would be paying him a visit on the same day and promptly left. The animal control Director at the time is a good friend who I had secretly called during a "bathroom break". I drove about a mile down the dirt road and waited for animal control who showed up and charged the guy on the spot. It took a couple of days to find people who would take the horses.

I hate horses. Their mouth is different from a cows and they do not graze, they pull the grass out by the roots. The rule of thumb in the southeast for cattle on maintained pasture is 2 cows/acre. The minimum for 1 horse is 3 acres and I think that is pushing it. And a stock horse would still require supplementation.
If you want to have a horse as a hobby great, have at it. If you live on a 5 acre lot, which is common here use a responsible boarder to keep your horse.
Rant over.

 

[Xue Sheng]

How odd.....I have not had any desire to play my steel string acoustic guitar in years..... use to play all the time, played for many years, then one day, I just stopped. I have ocassionally forced my self to pick it upand play, but it never lasted longer than a day, and I was forcing myself. Also I have not listened to Motorhead in years.....but after last nights symphony concert that was all Mozart, and my brush with my old Lemmy Kilmister/Motorhead days, not only do I feel compelled to play the acoustic again, but also to play Motorhead...specifically the sing Motorhead. The story goes that Lemmy Kilmister wrote that in the balcony of the Hammersmith with a borrowed acoustic guitar....and the writing and the playing of that song....killed the acoustic guitar.

I also feel compelled to find some classical piece that I can play on the steel string.....because I do not feel compelled to play my classical guitar.....

The Acoustic Guitar Killer

 

[granfire]

I'm down with that.
We used to sell hay to whoever would buy it and delivered some of it. I remember being disgusted with what I saw at one horse owners locations (I will not call it a farm). Way too many animals running around on a ball of dust. No grass at all, no feed/water troughs, no shade and very hungry and underfed animals . The horses knocked down the fence to get at the hay that was still on the trailer. Then I find out the guy lied to me and did not even have a tractor to unload the hay off my trailer. I was not going to leave the animals hungry so I helped him wrestle the double stacked hay off the trailer by hand. These were 5x5 rolls (if you know the difference you will get it). While unloading the hay I made small talk with the guy about his property and found out he had 12 horses on 3 acres. I helped him cobble his fence back up and got paid. I then preceded to let him know animal control would be paying him a visit on the same day and promptly left. The animal control Director at the time is a good friend who I had secretly called during a "bathroom break". I drove about a mile down the dirt road and waited for animal control who showed up and charged the guy on the spot. It took a couple of days to find people who would take the horses.

I hate horses. Their mouth is different from a cows and they do not graze, they pull the grass out by the roots. The rule of thumb in the southeast for cattle on maintained pasture is 2 cows/acre. The minimum for 1 horse is 3 acres and I think that is pushing it. And a stock horse would still require supplementation.
If you want to have a horse as a hobby great, have at it. If you live on a 5 acre lot, which is common here use a responsible boarder to keep your horse.
Rant over.

You have to have impeccable pasture management! Cows eat the long stuff, horses the short stuff, then you have to let it grow.
But even unshod horses tear the ground up with their hooves! I love them, but they are incredible destructive!
You really need to have that sacrifice lot and restrict turnout on grass to a few hours on grass - and of course, that costs you hey!
And yeah, I wrestled hay around! Not in round bales, only 'small' squares that were almost as tall as I am! Probably weight as much, too (I was a lightweight back then!) I much prefer to load straw! It's much lighter!
You have to resign yourself to the fact that you won 't keep a horse on just grass on a small farm.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And thyme.

Sage advice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I suspect your background gives you a different perspective, and genuinely that is a beautiful thing.
I apologize for being the crotchety old guy. I had never heard of Kiva and had to look it up. It is an admirable venture.
Old guy talking again; I hope Thunberg is driving the boat and not just another environmental puppet. For the last two days I have had some very heated conversations between our local Cattlemen's Association and PETA. For decades (100+ years) the wild horse population in the U.S. and Canada has been growing largely uncontrolled leading to exponential growth the last 50 years. It has led to massive death and deformity rates from starvation, inbreeding, and disease. Some very large private firms have struck agreements to be allowed to herd some of the wild horses contingent on selling the meat to impoverished overseas countries. A win/win. But all PETA sees is horses being slaughtered. They do not see that the death rates have actually gone down the last two decades. Even more frustrating they are spinning it as making room for more cattle to be raised.
Damn, just damn.

Oh, and I fully agree. It is not just an age thing.

The whole wild horses issue is a freakin' mess. So many bad decisions, mostly made with good intent.

 

[dvcochran]

You have to have impeccable pasture management! Cows eat the long stuff, horses the short stuff, then you have to let it grow.
But even unshod horses tear the ground up with their hooves! I love them, but they are incredible destructive!
You really need to have that sacrifice lot and restrict turnout on grass to a few hours on grass - and of course, that costs you hey!
And yeah, I wrestled hay around! Not in round bales, only 'small' squares that were almost as tall as I am! Probably weight as much, too (I was a lightweight back then!) I much prefer to load straw! It's much lighter!
You have to resign yourself to the fact that you won 't keep a horse on just grass on a small farm.

I admittedly am no horse expert but from what I know cows make a clean cut with their front teeth and chew (their cud) with the incisors. Horses grab the grass with their teeth and use their long head and neck to rip the grass out of the ground, much like a person does with their hand. I have never heard that an unshod vs. shod horse does less damage to pasture but I know four legged animals are rough on soft ground. We have 3 primary feed paddocks (about 5 acres each) through the feeding season and spend $400 in remediation on them each year. This includes reclaiming the very rich topsoil and reusing it as fertilizer and re-spreading and fertilizing spent soil. The tillage is a necessary evil so I figure we may as well maximize our efforts.
I hope I never see another small square bale. Growing up, before anyone was doing rounds, we baled 6,000-7,000 bales/year. There was no automation to speak of back then so each bale was handled at least twice, on the trailer, off the trailer, and sometimes off an elevator in the barn loft. You had to walk quite a distance carrying a bale. A standard small square is 18" x 16" x about 32" and if dried properly should not weigh more than 80lbs. When I was 14 you could legally drive for farm purposes and me and my cousin would work for Tyson in the summer. There were 6 crews of 3 people and we picked up 42,000 bales each year. We used to joke about how much easier it was there because they had bale shooters and stackers.

 

[granfire]

I admittedly am no horse expert but from what I know cows make a clean cut with their front teeth and chew (their cud) with the incisors. Horses grab the grass with their teeth and use their long head and neck to rip the grass out of the ground, much like a person does with their hand. I have never heard that an unshod vs. shod horse does less damage to pasture but I know four legged animals are rough on soft ground. We have 3 primary feed paddocks (about 5 acres each) through the feeding season and spend $400 in remediation on them each year. This includes reclaiming the very rich topsoil and reusing it as fertilizer and re-spreading and fertilizing spent soil. The tillage is a necessary evil so I figure we may as well maximize our efforts.
I hope I never see another small square bale. Growing up, before anyone was doing rounds, we baled 6,000-7,000 bales/year. There was no automation to speak of back then so each bale was handled at least twice, on the trailer, off the trailer, and sometimes off an elevator in the barn loft. You had to walk quite a distance carrying a bale. A standard small square is 18" x 16" x about 32" and if dried properly should not weigh more than 80lbs. When I was 14 you could legally drive for farm purposes and me and my cousin would work for Tyson in the summer. There were 6 crews of 3 people and we picked up 42,000 bales each year. We used to joke about how much easier it was there because they had bale shooters and stackers.

Yep!
in the late 70s my dad and uncle got back into horses. Slow first, with some old WB broodmare, then a race mare, and another.
Next thing you know, you got a horse peeking out of every buttonhole!
I don't think the farm was as big as yours, but hectar to acre isn't the math I am good with.
my uncle ran a few yeads of cows to take up the refuse from his winter business: Distilling grain alcohol.
In the summer they would run on pasture, and every day he would go out and move the electric fence a few feet. This way they grazed the pasture down nicely, and not trampling much
The horses were by the house, and managed to stomp the area by the gates into mud holes.
There were areas I remembered from early on that got eroded by just the horses walking across.
Horses graze very selectively as well. you can see horses between weeds as high as the elephant's eye on mud and dirt. They don't eat where they poop either (so every so often my uncle would put the cows on the horse pastures, or mow it)

the neighbor had milk cows in the early days. they would go out on their pastures by the farm, and come in for milking and concentrates. I don't think he was as particular about the pasture management. He switched to strawberries and other 'pick your own' stuff in the late 80s though. much less work. (but really close to town, so no problems with direct markets)

 

[granfire]

PS...I weighed about 116lbs in those days, soaking wet. those hay bales did me in!

 

[dvcochran]

Yep!
in the late 70s my dad and uncle got back into horses. Slow first, with some old WB broodmare, then a race mare, and another.
Next thing you know, you got a horse peeking out of every buttonhole!
I don't think the farm was as big as yours, but hectar to acre isn't the math I am good with.
my uncle ran a few yeads of cows to take up the refuse from his winter business: Distilling grain alcohol.
In the summer they would run on pasture, and every day he would go out and move the electric fence a few feet. This way they grazed the pasture down nicely, and not trampling much
The horses were by the house, and managed to stomp the area by the gates into mud holes.
There were areas I remembered from early on that got eroded by just the horses walking across.
Horses graze very selectively as well. you can see horses between weeds as high as the elephant's eye on mud and dirt. They don't eat where they poop either (so every so often my uncle would put the cows on the horse pastures, or mow it)

the neighbor had milk cows in the early days. they would go out on their pastures by the farm, and come in for milking and concentrates. I don't think he was as particular about the pasture management. He switched to strawberries and other 'pick your own' stuff in the late 80s though. much less work. (but really close to town, so no problems with direct markets)

I would Love to have a distillery close. They are an excellent source for supplement. I have read of some of the bigger operations in Wisconsin (where a LOT of alcohol is produced) having some insanely sweet deals. The best one is all the free product you want if you bring your own grain trucks.

On a different but similar parallel, I made a casual acquaintance Named John Glasscock (yea, that is his real name)at an automation engineering symposium several years ago. His background is chemical and science with another major in one of the business disciplines. John had helped TVA in a consulting roll work through quite a few issues and created a good relationship with TVA.
He told me a story of how he was traveling back from the TVA Kingston Fossil coal ash spill (commonly called slake) wondering if there were alternated uses for the spillage. Coke, the material left over after a cooling tower is scrubbed is part of the process as a by product and it is nearly identical in makeup to what original sheet rork (wallboard) uses.
What John did that was very impressive was research to determine that when using Coke, the "rock" part of wall board is the same and had a slightly higher resistance to burning.
John is a cool operator and all this discovery he had been doing for around 3 years had flown under the radar.
So John started meeting with Georgia Pacific to supply board filler. Ultimately he struck a pilot plan agreement to the tune of $3.1M to supply Cake at a specific moisture content in a JIT fashion to the wallboard plants already adjacent for the TVA compounds.
Looking at the picture from a higher level, he found a few attractive dots that needed to connect with some existing ones. Yea, it was really about that simple.
Implementation was tougher and that is where we came in. Many water driven energy producing facilities produce tremendous amounts of coke and it is slurried in to massive "holding ponds. This results in years of available product for the person who can figure out how to move it, dry it to speck and cake it as required for delivery to the adjoining wallboard plant.

 

[Buka]

I don’t think I’ve met anyone who loves and respects animals as much as I do. That being said I have a thing for PETA. Back in the day I refused admission to my dojo to a couple of those scoundrels. (Of course I refused admission to a lot of scoundrels.)

PETA......The very thought of them makes me want to go all “Top of the food chain” on their sorry ashes.

 

[dvcochran]

I don’t think I’ve met anyone who loves and respects animals as much as I do. That being said I have a thing for PETA. Back in the day I refused admission to my dojo to a couple of those scoundrels. (Of course I refused admission to a lot of scoundrels.)

PETA......The very thought of them makes me want to go all “Top of the food chain” on their sorry ashes.

It is sad when irrational people have a modicum of influence and abuse the power. Too often they end up doing exactly what they thought they were going to prevent.
Don't poke the bear. They bite. Hard.
Some PETA people here in TN have the ignorance to think this wild horse "issue" on the other side of the country should effect cattle producers in TN. It hasn't gone well for them. The person that was leading the initiative stepped down after being shown several videos of the scale of death and disease from over population occurring. The initiative largely disbanded after Saturday but I am sure some other knucklehead will pick it back up.
Man, I love our Governor.

 

[_Simon_]

How odd.....I have not had any desire to play my steel string acoustic guitar in years..... use to play all the time, played for many years, then one day, I just stopped. I have ocassionally forced my self to pick it upand play, but it never lasted longer than a day, and I was forcing myself. Also I have not listened to Motorhead in years.....but after last nights symphony concert that was all Mozart, and my brush with my old Lemmy Kilmister/Motorhead days, not only do I feel compelled to play the acoustic again, but also to play Motorhead...specifically the sing Motorhead. The story goes that Lemmy Kilmister wrote that in the balcony of the Hammersmith with a borrowed acoustic guitar....and the writing and the playing of that song....killed the acoustic guitar.

I also feel compelled to find some classical piece that I can play on the steel string.....because I do not feel compelled to play my classical guitar.....

The Acoustic Guitar Killer

YASS! DO IT!

 

[AngryHobbit]

Sage advice.

<groan>

 

[AngryHobbit]

I don’t think I’ve met anyone who loves and respects animals as much as I do. That being said I have a thing for PETA. Back in the day I refused admission to my dojo to a couple of those scoundrels. (Of course I refused admission to a lot of scoundrels.)

PETA......The very thought of them makes me want to go all “Top of the food chain” on their sorry ashes.

If you ever do, wait for me. I want to participate.

 

[AngryHobbit]

How odd.....I have not had any desire to play my steel string acoustic guitar in years..... use to play all the time, played for many years, then one day, I just stopped. I have ocassionally forced my self to pick it upand play, but it never lasted longer than a day, and I was forcing myself. Also I have not listened to Motorhead in years.....but after last nights symphony concert that was all Mozart, and my brush with my old Lemmy Kilmister/Motorhead days, not only do I feel compelled to play the acoustic again, but also to play Motorhead...specifically the sing Motorhead. The story goes that Lemmy Kilmister wrote that in the balcony of the Hammersmith with a borrowed acoustic guitar....and the writing and the playing of that song....killed the acoustic guitar.

I also feel compelled to find some classical piece that I can play on the steel string.....because I do not feel compelled to play my classical guitar.....

The Acoustic Guitar Killer

Go for it - I am attempting to reinvent myself as a dancer.... at the ripe old age of 44 and with NONE of the physical attributes one would expect a dancer to have.

 

[AngryHobbit]

A friend at work had a birthday... and we were celebrating... Long story short - does anyone have any advice how to get down from the ceiling and re-motivated to do work after eating a piece of very rich chocolate cake? Asking for a friend.

 

[Xue Sheng]

A friend at work had a birthday... and we were celebrating... Long story short - does anyone have any advice how to get down from the ceiling and re-motivated to do work after eating a piece of very rich chocolate cake? Asking for a friend.

Well, since my reaction to that would result in pretty much a coma.....I got nothing

 

[pdg]

A friend at work had a birthday... and we were celebrating... Long story short - does anyone have any advice how to get down from the ceiling and re-motivated to do work after eating a piece of very rich chocolate cake? Asking for a friend.

The cause is lost, give in and just go with it.

You know it makes sense.