Larense Garrote Venezuelan Martial Art

[Silat Junkie]

Mark,

I have been told that both the Philippines and Venezuela were occupied at least partially during the same time periods by Spain. I haven't researched it myself and I don't recall what those time periods were...

Sean

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by The Boar Man
I agree this discussion has no real bearing on the systems of either the FMA or GL. On whether or not this is pointless debate I'm sorry if this is pointless to you, I was truly interested in other peoples opinons on the similarities between GL and the FMA and why they may/may not be similar.

I have read these type of discussions on other subjects TKD (for one) and while to me it would be hard to figure out who (chinese, japanese, okinawan, or korean) came up with such and such a kick, or joint lock etc. etc. and these tend to be pointless in my view. To others well, some people really research this out and know when this culture took over this culture and imposed their system of living over it etc.etc. to these individuals it is important to know their arts history to that degree. I was putting forth the question in hopes that maybe someone had some input on this.

Valid points.

It just seemed to me that this thread had largely moved from being a fruitful discussion and into the realm of "I'm right and you're wrong ... so there."

Personally, I find the research into an arts history/origin to be valuable to understanding its roots. But when it becomes a couple of people saying (basically):

"System A is just a derivative of system B."
"No it's not. It's a separate entity."
"They're too similar to be separate."

Etc.

That debate gets tiresome (to me) pretty quickly and, IMO, leads nowhere.

But maybe I'm just overly sensitive. I don't know. I was just responding to the sense I got while reading through the thread ... and the sense I got was that it had gotten into a rather circular pattern with nothing really new coming into the mix and going nowhere fast.

If I jumped the gun, then I apologize. That's just the way it felt to me.

Mike

 

[Silat Junkie]

Hello Mike;

I cannot agree more completely with that sentiment! I personally was finding the discussion tedious... No offense to anyone who posted, even those I don't agree with.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Originally posted by pesilat
Valid points.

It just seemed to me that this thread had largely moved from being a fruitful discussion and into the realm of "I'm right and you're wrong ... so there."

Personally, I find the research into an arts history/origin to be valuable to understanding its roots. But when it becomes a couple of people saying (basically):

"System A is just a derivative of system B."
"No it's not. It's a separate entity."
"They're too similar to be separate."

Etc.

That debate gets tiresome (to me) pretty quickly and, IMO, leads nowhere.

But maybe I'm just overly sensitive. I don't know. I was just responding to the sense I got while reading through the thread ... and the sense I got was that it had gotten into a rather circular pattern with nothing really new coming into the mix and going nowhere fast.

If I jumped the gun, then I apologize. That's just the way it felt to me.

Mike

Mike and Sean

I understand what you mean and I was trying to get information and opinons without it getting "I'm right so there", in fact when I asked about the similarities and the Spanish occupation I was trying to get away from that train of thought.

However be that as it may if this subject has totoally desinagrated into that level of discussion and if I have helped it get there please accept my apology because that wasn't my intent.

I thank you both for your input on the subject.

Mark

 

[Livio Girotto]

Hello:

I am a Jugador de Garrote (Instructor of Garrote Larense), with sixteen years of experience in the art that you choosed to call "Garrote Larense", and I rather call "El Juego del Garrote". I becamed very happy to see that there are some american folks interested in this contact discipline. I read every post written here, and I would like to tell you some things:

* Anyone that is skeptical about the seriousness of a discipline like the one we are talking about, or about its teachers, should not be considered an unrespectful person, because that is the approach that I will advice anybody to have. In the case of people like kuntawman, he is right when he does not trust anybody only by the things said, he wants to see the facts. Many martial schools, arts and instructors have been created for the satisfaction of the ego of those who claim to be the ones with the ability to teach.

* For those talking about filipino influence in Venezuelan Stick Fighting System, I would only ask them to find the name of a spaniard guy, registered in history, that had the chance to navigate to both sides of the world by those years, because I am pretty sure that they will never find not even a case. Filipino influence in el Juego del Garrote is ZERO. Whoever said that, is a filipino martial arts practitioner that had received a little bit instruction of Garrote, but wants to appear as an instructor, teaching a self made style.

* I studied the art with a Master called Mercédez Pérez, he died sixteen months ago, he was a beatiful human being, but he was nothing more than a peasant all his life, he never travelled to any place outside Venezuela, he did not have even attended elementary school, he was poor in money, the onliest martial art he saw (by tv), but never practiced, was western boxing. His art was pure, and I learned it that way from him. I have a lot of videos of him, and some of my training partner also have many. The venezuelan fighting art known as "el Juego del Garrote" is a very refined, and reliable art.

* As for me, I had the opportunity to train Kali here in Venezuela, I respect that art a lot, because I can see the efficiency that it has, but I never participated in not even one class, because I wanted to keep my stick fighting backgrund as clean as possible, to avoid coments like those that I had read at this forum. I trained Bujinkan Ninpo until I met Garrote Larense (3rd degree black belt), then I became involved with other martial arts like Free style wrestling and brazilian jiujitsu. As you could notice, no filipino, or any other kind of stick fighting training besides Garrote.

* Western martial arts are rich, just watch a MMA event like UFC, the predominant arts are boxing and wrestling, along with brazilian jiujitsu (a western interpretation of ancient japanese jiujitsu), russian Sambo, and the very asian Muay Thai. So, please, don't think that only asian cultures developed fighting arts.

* Venezuela is not the only southamerican nation that has stick, knife or machete fighting systems, but is a country that has a bunch of people keeping its martial art from fading away. One tip about Venezuela, is that it was the first spanish province to declare independence from Spain, hence, venezuelan had to fight a lot, later, when Venezuela became a free nation, venezuelans went to other spanish provinces to fight for their independence from Spain. Venezuelan warriors fought for generations, they didn't have bombs, or tanks, all they had were spears, blades and percussion weapon, isn't logical to guess that they mastered those weapons?.

* Contact me trough [email protected], and visit my academy's web site: www.garrotelarense.org.



Stay well,:ultracool

Livio Girotto

 

[Cruentus]

For those talking about filipino influence in Venezuelan Stick Fighting System, I would only ask them to find the name of a spaniard guy, registered in history, that had the chance to navigate to both sides of the world by those years, because I am pretty sure that they will never find not even a case. Filipino influence in el Juego del Garrote is ZERO. Whoever said that, is a filipino martial arts practitioner that had received a little bit instruction of Garrote, but wants to appear as an instructor, teaching a self made style.

I am pretty sure there are similarities between Venezuelan arts and Filipino arts.

I could more easily say that the Spanish fencing and fighting may have influenced the Filipino arts, as I do see similarities between the two. Spanish fighting systems undoubtedly influenced Venezuelan arts. So perhaps the similarities could be found there, depending on which Filipino system(s) we are refering too of course.

Yet, you never know what could have gotten transfered around and how. Spain occupied the PI from 1565 to 1898. During that time there is no doubt in my mind that Filipino fighting arts influenced Spanish fighting arts, and vice versa. The question is, could some of this stuff have migrated from PI to South America to Venezuela?

I would argue yes. Venezuela was first colonized in 1522 (Magellan died in 1521 in the Philippines ironically), and didn't gain independence until 1821. So there was a 256 years of total time where Spain occupied both the Philippines AND Venezuela. That is plenty of time for Filipino arts to have influenced Spanish arts AND for these influences to have travelled to Venezuela. It is a pretty fair hypothesis anyways; I'd bet with plenty of time and research we could find plenty of Spanish sailors who made the trip from the Filipines in the Pacific Islands to the Colombian coast(which as you know is Venezuela's neighbor) and vice versa. It is a known fact that plenty of Spanish sailors coming from the Spice Islands (and the Philippines) sailed to the Columbian Coast, around South America, stopping in Venezuela before heading back to Spain. It also known that many Filipino's worked on Spanish ships. So, I think there will be more similarities between the two arts then one might think.

Yet, I am sure your art is distinctly Venezuelan as well, despite any similarities. I for one would love to spend a little time in your art to see the differences and similarities for myself.

Yours,

Paul

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Livio Girotto,

Welcome to MartialTalk and thanks for posting!!!

Palusut
MT Moderator