Kung Fu in UFC

[Danny T]

I don't share the same training experience as you do. I don't know either you had good luck or I had bad luck.

- In the movie '"Iron and Silk", during the 1st day lesson, the teacher only taught him how to hold fists on the waist and turn his head to the left.
- After I had learned all 3 WC forms from Jimmy Kao, he still hadn't shown me any footwork yet.
- During the 1st day of my high school long fist training, my teacher taught me only how to put left hand in front of my chest (face down) and right hand in front of my belly (face up) as the following clip at 0.00.

There are:
martial Art Teachers,
Martial art Teachers,
Martial Arts Teachers.

Some teach an Art,
Some teach Martial Skills for fighting,
Some teach both.

I tend to be the 3rd who teaches both but with very strong emphasis that develops some usable understanding & skill today.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My approach as a teacher is different. I don’t know how much time I will have with a student, so I try to give them something they can use as quickly as possible. I want a student’s time with me to be worthwhile whether they spend one day with me or ten years.

I also like to teach techniques that my students can use it in fighting during day one. For each technique, I'll record it on video twice (in both directions). This way, students will have a copy of all those techniques that they have learned. I also have a record that every techniques I have taught. IMO, it's an excellent idea.

Here is an example of "neck wiping foot sweep".

I have a new student who had 2 classes (2 hours each) with me. Here are the class content for those 2 classes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st class:

1. 5 different entering strategies:

- Rhino guard.
- Double spears.
- Zombie guard.
- Octopus.
- Separate hands.

2. 4 different ways to use under hook.
3. 2 different ways to use over hook.
4. Uniform stance single leg.
5. Mirror stance single leg.

2nd class:

1. 抹(Mo) – Wiping (neck, eyebrow).

- Neck wiping foot sweep.
- Neck wiping front cut.
- Neck wiping wheeling step foot sweep.
- Neck wiping wheeling step inner hook.
- Arm guiding eyebrow wiping.
- Eyebrow wiping against head lock.

2. 撈(Lao) – Leg seize.

- Arm guiding leg seize.
- Reverse head lock leg seize (flip turtle).
- Turn shin bone into low roundhouse kick leg seize.
- Leg bending escape low roundhouse kick leg seize.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I do know that I’ve read a lot of stories where the teacher makes a new student spend a long time proving his dedication before sharing “the good stuff” in an art. Maybe this made sense in generations past where a student who learned the “secrets” might use them against his instructor or run off to set himself up as a competitor.

I can't stand this attitude towards martial arts. the "Proving dedication before sharing" to me is arrogant. I'm not sure what it was in the past, but in today's society it's a lot of arrogance and "lowering of one's self" before another. Things like this doesn't sit well with me and I'm so glad I didn't have to go through that.

At one point in time there may have served a purpose for it. But these days, to go through all of this and still not know how to use the techniques in a fight and all the student can do is perform a form. Is that what the student has to prove their dedication for?

 

[JowGaWolf]

also like to teach techniques that my students can use it in fighting during day one. For each technique, I'll record it on video twice (in both directions). This way, students will have a copy of all those techniques that they have learned. I also have a record that every techniques I have taught. IMO, it's an excellent idea.

I like all of this. Purpose, function, and something better than martial arts drawing to use as a learning reference.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not only the WC system. All the other CMA systems have this same problem as well. That is, you learn a form first. you then try to figure out the application from the form.
.

Nope. Not all. My instruction was not like this.

You keep making blanket statements like this. I keep telling you that you are wrong.

Maybe you received bad instruction. I dunno. But your experience does not reflect all that is out there.

 

[Flying Crane]

I can't stand this attitude towards martial arts. the "Proving dedication before sharing" to me is arrogant. I'm not sure what it was in the past, but in today's society it's a lot of arrogance and "lowering of one's self" before another. Things like this doesn't sit well with me and I'm so glad I didn't have to go through that.

At one point in time there may have served a purpose for it. But these days, to go through all of this and still not know how to use the techniques in a fight and all the student can do is perform a form. Is that what the student has to prove their dedication for?

I think more time and effort than what often is, needs to be spent with beginners on building a strong foundation, and that means spending a lot of time on basics before moving on to the “cool” stuff. In my opinion, that is good teaching.

But I can see where a new student might misinterpret that as “holding back” and not teaching him the good stuff until he proves his worthiness.

I think a lot of beginners do not understand what the good stuff really is. Perhaps a good teacher can help them understand that, and have a greater appreciation for the process.

I did my best to help my student understand this. He went to watch a local kung Fu tournament, mostly forms competition and may be push hands. He came back and told me that i had ruined the experience for him. While watching the forms, all he could see was weak foundations, wobbly stances, poor transitions and poor power generation, with a lot of flashy and fancy hand movements. Apparently I had opened his eyes for him and he was able to recognize what he was seeing for what it really was.

I guess I did my job, then.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think more time and effort than what often is, needs to be spent with beginners on building a strong foundation, and that means spending a lot of time on basics before moving on to the “cool” stuff. In my opinion, that is good teaching.

Yeah but there is a big difference between training basics and building a strong foundation, and dragging out training just to see how dedicated someone is to something.

An instructor or training should be able to tell how dedicated someone is without dragging training out longer than need just to see if if someone is dedicated. Students will go through all of that and still get stomped in a physical fight from someone who has only been training 5 or 6 months in MMA, Wrestling, or BJJ.

Once a foundation is strong enough to move on, then move on, but always train foundation everyday while learning new techniques. Just basing things on how I learned and how I taught classes. I didn't spend 5 months just training a horse stance and 5 months just training a cat stance. Just to see if the student was dedicated. My training and teaching is very demanding so if a student shows up the next class and the following week, then I know that person is dedicated enough. People who weren't didn't show up the next class or the following week. It was that simple to me to determine who is dedicated.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah but there is a big difference between training basics and building a strong foundation, and dragging out training just to see how dedicated someone is to something.

An instructor or training should be able to tell how dedicated someone is without dragging training out longer than need just to see if if someone is dedicated. Students will go through all of that and still get stomped in a physical fight from someone who has only been training 5 or 6 months in MMA, Wrestling, or BJJ.

Once a foundation is strong enough to move on, then move on, but always train foundation everyday while learning new techniques. Just basing things on how I learned and how I taught classes. I didn't spend 5 months just training a horse stance and 5 months just training a cat stance. Just to see if the student was dedicated. My training and teaching is very demanding so if a student shows up the next class and the following week, then I know that person is dedicated enough. People who weren't didn't show up the next class or the following week. It was that simple to me to determine who is dedicated.

Do you know people who actually still do this?

I tend to think it is the perception of a beginner.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you know people who actually still do this?

I tend to think it is the perception of a beginner.

Unfortunately I have come across some people who do this and or have this mentality. I've heard instructors say that people who are dedicated like they are don't deserve their time and effort to instruct. If they thought the person wasn't serious then they wouldn't worry about teaching that person quality until that person has proven they are serious about kung fu.

Some people get caught up in this image of kung fu students begging teachers to train them and only after begging will the teacher take on the student. While there may not be many out there, they are out there. Some can be really arrogant in that manner.

Be thankful you haven't seen this because it's not a pretty sight.

 

[Flying Crane]

Unfortunately I have come across some people who do this and or have this mentality. I've heard instructors say that people who are dedicated like they are don't deserve their time and effort to instruct. If they thought the person wasn't serious then they wouldn't worry about teaching that person quality until that person has proven they are serious about kung fu.

Some people get caught up in this image of kung fu students begging teachers to train them and only after begging will the teacher take on the student. While there may not be many out there, they are out there. Some can be really arrogant in that manner.

Be thankful you haven't seen this because it's not a pretty sight.

Well, I haven’t seen it. I guess I suspect it is pretty rare.

I fully support the right of a sifu to choose to not teach someone. But if that is the choice, they should be up front about it and be done with it. Don’t lead anyone on, don’t accept money and then deliberately mislead a student and teach him junk.