Kung Fu in mainland China- a discussion?

[Danny T]

I think Joy was rather straight forward with his statements.

I got that he was forwarding what was WSL's and HKM's view that there was no good wing chun left on the mainland.
Also that in todays culture because of videos there is now an abundant amount of video watchers who's wing chun is but from videos..., It is happening in China, the UK, and the U.S. From his point of view. (probably in more places than listed)

So be discerning about where your information come from as well as what that information is.

 

[guy b.]

I think Joy was rather straight forward with his statements.

I got that he was forwarding what was WSL's and HKM's view that there was no good wing chun left on the mainland.
Also that in todays culture because of videos there is now an abundant amount of video watchers who's wing chun is but from videos..., It is happening in China, the UK, and the U.S. From his point of view. (probably in more places than listed)

So be discerning about where your information come from as well as what that information is.

What I didn't get from the original comment was whether Joy was particularly stressing that made up from video versions of wing chun are a problem of those branches originating from China, e.g. Yik Kam, Kulo Village

I think there are certainly issues with some of these branches, which have probably been worsened by various parties attempts to retro fit history back onto wing chun following YM move to HK and apparent lack of concern over accurate history. Some Chinese wing chun I have seen looks pretty awful to be honest. I could believe in some cases that it was made up after watching video in order to please the tourists.

For HK wing chun I would say the problem is more one of high % of students from the 50s to 70s attempting to cash in and start teaching without having much idea of what to do

 

[Vajramusti]

The thing to always take into consideration on mainland china, pre-mao and doubly so when Mao was in power is...the nail that stands up gets pounded down.

The thing to always take into consideration on mainland china, pre-mao and doubly so when Mao was in power is...the nail that stands up gets pounded down.

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Correct. And re the Cultural revolution many folks do not understand it's impact on many things including the martial arts.

 

[guy b.]

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Correct. And re the Cultural revolution many folks do not understand it's impact on many things including the martial arts.

Effect devastating, got it. Which branches of Chinese wing chun do you identify as worthless made up cr@p please? And on what basis?

 

[geezer]

Effect devastating, got it. Which branches of Chinese wing chun do you identify as worthless made up cr@p please? And on what basis?

We don't allow "fraud busting" on this site. Joy's post made no such allegations, so please stop this line of questioning. Frankly, it's trolling.

 

[guy b.]

We don't allow "fraud busting" on this site. Joy's post made no such allegations, so please stop this line of questioning. Frankly, it's trolling.

Well he's hinted pretty obviously in that direction and frankly I'd prefer to know what he thinks rather than guess. Are you saying that rumour and whispers is ok but openly stated opinion not ok? If so why, what is the difference?

I haven't made any fraud busting allegation and I didn't make the thread.

 

[Marnetmar]

You are saying that all of the pin sun, kulo, yks and other wing chun that has been creeping out of the woodwork in various places is made up by watching YM wing chun and that real wing chun died in China?

Not really what you're talking about, but the Kulo/Pin Sun guys have been shown to be guilty of showing Yip Man WC to non-villagers several times under the guise that it was what they actually practiced.

 

[Danny T]

What I didn't get from the original comment was whether Joy was particularly stressing that made up from video versions of wing chun are a problem of those branches originating from China, e.g. Yik Kam, Kulo Village

You are correct he didn't say that at all.

I think there are certainly issues with some of these branches, which have probably been worsened by various parties attempts to retro fit history back onto wing chun following YM move to HK and apparent lack of concern over accurate history. Some Chinese wing chun I have seen looks pretty awful to be honest. I could believe in some cases that it was made up after watching video in order to please the tourists.

So now you have made a comment about some main land wc parties have certain issues. Which parties and what issues specifically are your referring to?

Effect devastating, got it. Which branches of Chinese wing chun do you identify as worthless made up cr@p please? And on what basis?

He didn't refer to any branch of as being "worthless made up cr@p"...those are your words not his.

 

[guy b.]

You are correct he didn't say that at all.

He hinted strongly in that direction (it would have to be that way if wing chun effectively died in mainland China and yet exists today)

So now you have made a comment about some main land wc parties have certain issues. Which parties and what issues specifically are your referring to?

Careful buddy, we aren't allowed "fraud busting" on this site. I was warned for making a comment very similar to the one you just made. Wouldn't want to see you get banned.

He didn't refer to any branch of as being "worthless made up cr@p"...those are your words not his.

Just attempting to cut to the chase, but don't worry I see that insinuation is the way to make allegations here. Direct statements not appreciated

 

[mograph]

Which branches of Chinese wing chun do you identify as worthless made up cr@p please?

Just attempting to cut to the chase, but don't worry I see that insinuation is the way to make allegations here. Direct statements not appreciated

"Which branches of Chinese wing chun do you identify as ineffective, please?" would be a direct question.

 

[ivanr]

...So did you study a branch of Yip Man Wing Chun before? And now you follow a mainland instructor? Why not share a little about yourself and your experiences?

Hi geezer,

yes, i have started to the end of 80s with Yip Man Hong Kong style and now since end of 90s i am learning wing chun and some other skills in China. After that i NEVER came to idea to learn outside, because it is same as if you want to explore life of tigers and you do it in ZOO..

No doubt, we have super skilled and respected Sifus outside of China, no doubt.
But roots of kung fu are still in China...

greetings, IR

 

[ivanr]

Ivan is probably more well-traveled than Sergio! It would be great to hear some of his insights and experiences with mainland Chinese instructors. How about it Ivan? I know you spent a lot of time with Wong Nim Yi? Who else have you studied with? Thanks!

Hi KPM!

No, no, no - Sergio sifu moved to HK to research wingchun, he traveled to Taiwan, Vietnam, etc. I am stuck in China only...

Yes, i am student of Wong Nim Yi sifu and Leung Wai Choi sifu - thoose are my SIFUs. All anothers taught me only on friendly base. To mention all the names (different Yip Mans students, Sam Nangs students (Sam Nang himself i have met twice only), different other wingchun lineages sifus, ... ) need long list and I do not want to flaunt .

My basically most immportent experience is, you have to live with your Sifu "his life" to learn from him. Not some "classes", "seminars", etc.

On one of my first visits in Guangzhou with Sifu Wong Nim Yi, it was so that I sold my house in the Czech Republic and moved for quarter into an apartment to Sifu and his family, it was actually my third visit over there. After that he started to teach me, not only show me... Because i was all the time available..

greetings, ir

 

[geezer]

Dang, Ivan, sounds like you are definitely living the (Kung-fu) life!!!

So apparently you are Czech, and obviously speak English too. Have you also learned Cantonese?

 

[ivanr]

Dang, Ivan, sounds like you are definitely living the (Kung-fu) life!!!

So apparently you are Czech, and obviously speak English too. Have you also learned Cantonese?

Hi,
yeah, Czech. My english is bad, never study that, but enough for simple conversation. Same my cantonese and chinese. Basic knowledge of cantonese are there, in my opinion absolutely necessary. Or chineglish !

 

[dudewingchun]

Hi,
yeah, Czech. My english is bad, never study that, but enough for simple conversation. Same my cantonese and chinese. Basic knowledge of cantonese are there, in my opinion absolutely necessary. Or chineglish !

Wow so you met Sum Nung himself twice ? What was your experience thoughts on his skill ? Everything I have heard about him makes him out to have been very very very good. Like Ip man level good if I was to use a scale.