Kotegaeshi with a difference

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by now disabled, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Judo chop them straight down would probably slip through. It is pretty small
     
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  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    What I don't get is I can't see how you would understand aiki without training live. Because that is where the understanding of timing and the nuances of body live.

    So even from a purely academic stand point I don't think aikido are using the right tools to understand aikido.





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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  3. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    sort off and I get that from your standpoint

    the randori is one way as well it can get way more serious than you'll ever see a vid made of lol

    Oh mant ...myself included coud spend a lifetime trying to get Aiki "right" and never master it lol... but it the path you take to get there and how you choose to move on that path has an effect on your abilities ...

    also you could take ten guys train them the same ...same dojo same instructors et al and get 10 different results so there really is no standard way to approach Aiki you can try teach it and give the principles and get them to train but if they just don't get the feel or the rest then it will never work
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    There are greater and lesser effects from training. But they are not random. A good process will have a consistant result.

    If you are getting any old result. Especially if you are looking for something like aiki. You are training the wrong thing. And all you are noticing is that peoples natural abilities are different.

    So If I taught 10 people to play chess by making them swim. Then yes the ten people would have different outcomes.
     
  5. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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  6. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Look man, I think my opinion on the matter is pretty clear at this point, so I'm going to leave the dead horse be for now.

    I've put in the legwork here, visited all three aikido places within driving distance of me, scoured the net, and regularly spar with a shodan that trains in my MMA group. All I've found are guys that won't go live, found countless examples of aikidoka getting handled, and learned that the aikido stuff Mr shodan has don't work at full speed if I try to stop them. Granted he may suck, the studios I went to may be mcdojos, and maybe there is other evidence of what you say vis a vis effectiveness. I'll grant you these maybes because I'm not omnicient, just as I grant the religious folks a maybe.

    I do find it a little odd that nobody uses such a potentially devastating stand up grappling style in MMA even though all the techniques are legal, but I'll grant you there may be reasons for that too.
     
  7. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    That is how reasonable people respond. Maybe there is hope for you yet.

    Since you've finally managed civility, I'll respond in kind. First, you've asked several times about my training history. I've discussed this at some length here in the past so I'll just give you the cliff notes.

    Started with Wing Chun some 25 years ago, Sam Kwok lineage, and have carried that on to this day. I also boxed a lot a a local club throughout my teens. I got into bjj some years later, as well as Mui Thai, in the days before they called it MMA. My outside training dropped off for a couple years until I started training at the pool house. Basically a bunch of MMA and karate guys that got together for hard sparring twice a week.

    Now, at 41, I train an hour of Dutch style muithai followed by a half hour of submission grappling(basically wrestling and bjj together) 4 nights a week, and focus on my personal synthesis of MMA and Wing Chun Fridays and Sundays for an hour or so each with my bob and my wife(I get her to hold pads and the shield for me(she is becoming quite the little kickboxers too).
    Over all that time I've also done 'this and that' but not enough I'd say I practice those systems.

    I'm not going to pretend to know anything about aikido on any sort of intimate level, but I never claimed to. I'm just a student of the fight game with a very critical eye, and a constant desire to get an edge on my skills game.

    I WANT you to be right. I just need evidence before I can come on board.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes. And that really applies for anyone with reasonable takedown defense, as well.
     
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  9. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    Ok no issues

    As I said maybe seeing where aiki is going on is not apparent in other situations or fights and I have always sais that the classical Aikdo from the dojo does not essentially work however the principles do and you from your back ground will most likely use them just think of them in different ways

    I hold two Aikido ranks from different places they are not that high but I have studied Aikido for 35 years and wel it has been good to me and yes I have used it
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If a new student asks you the following questions, what will be your answer?

    - Why do you want to spend your life time to master Aiki?
    - If fighting skill is your goal, will you take Aikido as your path?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  11. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    My path is Aikido or was it a different path now but still a path
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    What make you to decide to take Aikido as your path? In other words, how will you convince a new student to take Aikido path?
     
  13. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    I wouldn't convince or try to convince any body as that is not the way I work ...the choice is theirs alone.

    Why did I chose Aikido ....that I could fill a book with really ...but personal development, the teacher (original one) the potential I saw in that art for me as a person and my own deeper reasons (which are my path)
     
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  14. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    this is how to defeat any tech and is super technical and the guy is awesome he used every skill in the book and even showed respect after he won


     
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