Kotegaeshi with a difference

[now disabled]

Position before submission.

ok

To me if I put a guy down using kotegaeshi I'd be following it up pretty rapidly with serious atemi and then go for a pin (well maybe depending on the situation)

 

[O'Malley]

In the Iwama school, kaeshi waza are used as 'keys' for proper technique. If you miss one detail that jeopardizes the effectiveness of your technique, uke does a kaeshi waza and you bite the dust. Then you know which detail you missed. For example, if you step forward too early when doing ikkyo, uke is able to do a single leg takedown. With proper technique, he's down before you step forward and the step sends him to the ground.

For this reason, kaeshi waza are taught at the level where one can become a teacher, to make sure proper technique is handed down to the students.

At high level, it can also be used in some kind of flow-sparring, I guess.

Btw the reason why we keep the connection when tori does a technique is that we are looking for an opening for kaeshi waza.

 

[drop bear]

ok

To me if I put a guy down using kotegaeshi I'd be following it up pretty rapidly with serious atemi and then go for a pin (well maybe depending on the situation)

If I was using serious atemi. I wouldn't bother with kotegeshi. I would put them down with atemi.

 

[drop bear]

If you are meaning a street fight there is only one I know of and it was posted before

there are vids of Aikidoka going up against tkd guys but that will not look like Aikido as you probably think of it as really what you see in the vids online is mostly the same small group of techs all the time and they are the ones that look good at demos and are performed in the classical genre

The closest I have seen to a more shortened version of Aikido and more direct online is probably Leny sly's vids ...if you can get past him and his ummm ways lol ...

Lenni sly doesn't do anything good that I have seen. Drills done hard are not really equal to drills done live.

Old mate who was at least dealing with retracted punches and a bit of footwork has been the most sensible aplication so far.

 

[now disabled]

If I was using serious atemi. I wouldn't bother with kotegeshi. I would put them down with atemi.

Yeah I get that but you are a punch /striker and have a different approach

 

[now disabled]

Can I as

In the Iwama school, kaeshi waza are used as 'keys' for proper technique. If you miss one detail that jeopardizes the effectiveness of your technique, uke does a kaeshi waza and you bite the dust. Then you know which detail you missed. For example, if you step forward too early when doing ikkyo, uke is able to do a single leg takedown. With proper technique, he's down before you step forward and the step sends him to the ground.

For this reason, kaeshi waza are taught at the level where one can become a teacher, to make sure proper technique is handed down to the students.

At high level, it can also be used in some kind of flow-sparring, I guess.

Btw the reason why we keep the connection when tori does a technique is that we are looking for an opening for kaeshi waza.

Can I ask who you studied Iwama style under ...just curious

 

[now disabled]

Lenni sly doesn't do anything good that I have seen. Drills done hard are not really equal to drills done live.

Old mate who was at least dealing with retracted punches and a bit of footwork has been the most sensible aplication so far.

I get you totally

in some ways it is a mind set really how you view how you can apply

just a very simple thing like if if manage to slip a punch and have entered a simple pull to the collar (backwards) can put a person down or and break his structure enough to poss allow another opening

 

[now disabled]

In the Iwama school, kaeshi waza are used as 'keys' for proper technique. If you miss one detail that jeopardizes the effectiveness of your technique, uke does a kaeshi waza and you bite the dust. Then you know which detail you missed. For example, if you step forward too early when doing ikkyo, uke is able to do a single leg takedown. With proper technique, he's down before you step forward and the step sends him to the ground.

For this reason, kaeshi waza are taught at the level where one can become a teacher, to make sure proper technique is handed down to the students.

At high level, it can also be used in some kind of flow-sparring, I guess.

Btw the reason why we keep the connection when tori does a technique is that we are looking for an opening for kaeshi waza.

Were you deshi in iwama and if so which Saito ?

 

[drop bear]

Yeah I get that but you are a punch /striker and have a different approach

No. Just I would be going from low risk to high risk. I don't like to drop both of my hands in a striking exchange. Seems a bit face punchy.

Even grappling my hands would be high untill i am inside his range.

 

[drop bear]

I get you totally

in some ways it is a mind set really how you view how you can apply

just a very simple thing like if if manage to slip a punch and have entered a simple pull to the collar (backwards) can put a person down or and break his structure enough to poss allow another opening

I am not a fan of punch stop collapse. And uke gave him that arm bar about half way in. 03:20.

 

[now disabled]

No. Just I would be going from low risk to high risk. I don't like to drop both of my hands in a striking exchange. Seems a bit face punchy.

Even grappling my hands would be high untill i am inside his range.

totally get that

ok if I ever faced a person like yourself , firstly I'd back off (I won't use Aikido terms here ) and make sure I was out of range of your jab for instance and try my best to keep that until I could get you to commit as in start to throw , and even then I might not close not until I can in myself see the opportunity to enter ...it may not come and it may not work but that is how I would try let you commit so you are then giving me something ...also if I did achieve the entry then any atemi I would use would be to a part of the body where you were not as a boxer used to being hit ...I know that may sound dumb but going for a person like yourselfs jaw etc is pointless as I do not have the resources to take you that way ,,,where as going for your neck area or throat would make more sense or the traps or even the spinal column ...I dunno if that makes sense

 

[now disabled]

I am not a fan of punch stop collapse. And uke gave him that arm bar about half way in. 03:20.

yes he did

it just the only readily available stuf online that shows not the classical style of Aikido ...I don't agree with all he says but some from my angle does actually make sense ...but I am looking at it from the Aikidoka standpoint lol

 

[Martial D]

This dude is doing a little more realistic form of choreography, but only a little

"Ok guys, do this parry to the side that leaves your face exposed to a rear hand shot, but before he can move you do two more moves"

Ok.

Against anyone that has a week of boxing he goes to sleep.

 

[now disabled]

This dude is doing a little more realistic form of choreography, but only a little

"Ok guys, do this parry to the side that leaves your face exposed to a rear hand shot, but before he can move you do two more moves"

Ok.

Thought I was on ignore ???

and ofcourse you are the now expert in boxing ....oops sorry is that getting at you again ? or am I still attention disabled

You sir show a great wide gap in understanding imo and are only to quick to jump on people I would suggest as I said before if you are so confident go to an Aikido dojo and just see for yourself take a vid camera and vid yourself destroying everyone it that simple then you will have all the vids you need to finally expose Aikido

Against anyone that has a week of boxing he goes to sleep.

 

[Ryback]

So, all we have to go on is your very strong assertions that this stuff ought to work, but there is literally no evidence, anywhere, to support said assertions. Gotcha.

Evidence? Go practice the art seriously for some years and you will "feel" all the evidence you need....

 

[Ryback]

I can punch a guy who is putting all his strength into trying to stop me and not be dangerous. I can throw a guy and not be dangerous. I can do chokes and neck cranks and arm bars and heel hooks and wrist locks.

But you can't do a wrist lock without them either collapsing on you ripping their arm off.

So basically you can't do anything that would provide any sort of empirical evidence.

And your own conclusions are not drawn from any sort of empirical evidence.

I can see what that guy from the Aikido vs video is on about.

What?? Of course I can do wrist locks, joint manipulation and every kind of technique without harming the Uke but in order to do so he should relax and follow my technique at the point of application. Anyone who says anything different they don't know what they're talking about, how can it be otherwise?
And do you think that someone who is using strength in order to resist a technique is a difficult opponent? How about if he has learned to be completely relaxed in order to escape the technique or counter it,or add a strike while you are doing the wrist lock. That's what's really difficult to defend from, not people tensing up in order to stop the technique. They are soooo going down and getting hurt!!

 

[Ryback]

Ok, let's rephrase it.

No modern exponent of the art has been filmed while successfully dealing with a competent attacker in a live situation (meaning that the attacker is allowed to throw whatever he wants, when he wants, including feints and combos). These days, you only see kata, even during so-called 'randori'.

I have already answered that, most aikidoka like to demonstrate a clear version of the techniques because it looks...nicer. And of course, most of them belong to organizations that are giving them directions about what they should be doing in order to hunt down ranks and that's why generally there are few aikidoka who are really studying the art seriously...
But that has nothing to do with the potential and the nature of the art, it's simply a wrong choice of direction in practice...
So, there are very famous aikidoka who are getting out there simply being showmen for the sake of Aikikai or whatever (not all of them of course). But I have seen unknown little basement dojos that have a great, holistic approach to the art, studying seriously in order to actually learn the art, not put a Dan rank on their wall... You don't have to display your Aikido on the social media in order for you to exist you know, I don't do that! I'm doing my Aikido practice in the Dojo and I don't think of youtube or Facebook as something so important...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

to be completely relaxed in order to escape the technique or counter it, ...

For joint locking, the

- best solution is the body unification force. You feel water flow from your spine, to your shoulder, and all the way to your finger tips (Aikido unbendable arm?).
- next best solution is to use vibration (or shaking) force to interrupt your opponent's motion during the early stage.

 

[Martial D]

Evidence? Go practice the art seriously for some years and you will "feel" all the evidence you need....

Believing isn't the same as emperical evidence.

Like say, if I were to say boxing is an 'effective martial art', I could produce hundreds of videos of people winning fights with boxing, and in fact if I were to make that claim I would expect someone to call me on it. The same goes for any other system I might name, or anything else in life really.

If I claim to be ten feet tall, I wouldn't expect people to just believe me. I certainly wouldn't make such a claim and follow up any challenges to it by telling people measuring sticks don't work on me and my skin reflects off all attempts at being photographed.

 

[now disabled]

Believing isn't the same as emperical evidence.

Like say, if I were to say boxing is an 'effective martial art', I could produce hundreds of videos of people winning fights with boxing, and in fact if I were to make that claim I would expect someone to call me on it. The same goes for any other system I might name, or anything else in life really.

If I claim to be ten feet tall, I wouldn't expect people to just believe me. I certainly wouldn't make such a claim and follow up any challenges to it by telling people measuring sticks don't work on me and my skin reflects off all attempts at being photographed.

Why don't you if you are so emphatic about wanting evidence actually go to an Aikido dojo state your case and see if they will let you practice?

I can see no other way that you will get the evidence you keep demanding!!!

If you go and it is all as you say then you win if not then you get your evidence first hand ....so it a win win situation, what do you have to lose ?

you stated that you have a friend who you think has just passed his shodan but unless you "let him " he can't perform any tech on you ,,,,well another way of getting your evidence is to resist as you want to and see what happens (I would say that a shodan might not be the best grade to do that with but hey go with what is there )