Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - General' started by GAB, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hello:
    Curious as to why???

    When somebody posts about Kempo on a board that allows Kempo and Kenpo.

    Kenpo going back to Hawaii. Kempo going back to Hawaii. Both going Back to
    James Mitose.

    Kajukenbo should be involved in this discussion also.

    The hostility that comes from the Kenpo side, then it appears the Kempo side will then become hostile also. Or the other way around.

    Either way can we just talk of Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo, explain why you as a person on this board, have your likes and dislikes.

    When referring to this Martial Art, I am talking about Hanshi Bruce Juchnik.
    Since he is the one who has put together both, MACS and SKSKI.

    Both organizations are for the preservation of the teachings of GGM James Mitose, and the harmony of the different Martial Arts.

    You will see it written as: Kosho, Kosho Ryu, Kosho Shorei Ryu.
    Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo. All the above I am referring to.

    Regards, Gary
     
  2. Mekosho

    Mekosho Yellow Belt

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    Ummm, wow, I am not totally sure what your question is, but I am thinking (correct me if I am wrong) that you are wondering why when people talk of Kempo/kenpo and it leading back to Mitose, they usually don't include Kajunkenbo as part of that past? Is that right?
     
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  3. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    O.K.

    maybe I can clear some of this up. What is macs and skski.
    macs stands for martial arts collective society. It is an umbrella organization headed up by Bruce Juchnik. It has members and advisors from many different arts kajukenbo included. It's purpose is to preserve the arts for future generations.

    skski is the sei kosho shorei kai was developed for the preservation of kosho shorei ryu kempo and the teachings of the late James Mitose.

    As far as hostility between kempo/kenpo/kajukenbo groups goes, most of that is directly related to their particular groups agenda. Everyone and I do mean everyone has their own agenda. For example It would seem that the kajukenbo group is pretty much in charge of this A&E special and how it is edited. Has Bruce Juchnik been contacted? He was Mitose's last student. The answer to that is no. Why not?

    Why is it that when given an oppurtunity to have questions answered like did Thomas Young's certificate have kempo spelled with an n or an m? Representatives of that group say that it's just the "juchnik camp" and don't take the time to call Mr. Juchnik and find out.

    Why would someone who said they saw Bruce Juchnik suck at a tournament not be able back that up. Why don't some of the notable martial arts practitioners who were supposedly there come foward to support such a claim. Why doesn't this person call Mr. Juchnik.

    why is it that when I post a private message to people such as these with my private phone # and Mr. Juchniks new school # that we never get calls. Why when giving people an oppurtunity to clear some of the missconceptions up these people don't make the call.

    The answer is agenda , whether it is I'm gonna stand by and support what my teacher said whether it's right or wrong. Or I'm not gonna give any credit to the howlees(sp). Or whether it's follow the money game. Everyones got one I mean everyone. Even people posting on this forum are here for an agenda, many just like to see their name and know that thousands of people will read it. They don't want to answer, either because they don't wan't to be called on their bluff or they don't care.

    Yes that means I have an agenda. It is this; to help clear up misconceptions about my teacher Bruce Juchnik and his last teacher James Mitose. I have seen the evidence forensic,historical, and by other people who were there that leads me to believe that my teacher is who he says he is and that supports that Mitose was who he said he was. I will also say I could be wrong and welcome any input either pro mitose/juchnik or con. If I am wrong I will state it.

    I will also say this once again. I do not endorse or condone any of the criminal activities of James Mitose.

    If anyone has any Questions private message me and I will give you my Phone number or Mr. Juchnik's Phone number and you can call, or you can leave your phone # and I will call you or will forward your # to Mr. Juchnik


    kelly keltner

    P.S. hey Doc I'm still waiting.
     
  4. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hi Mekosho,
    No that is not what I am saying. I, on purpose made a seperate line to include Kajukenbo.
    They are the ones who like AK want to seperate themselves from GGM James Mitose.
    In my opinion that does not lead to a credible position, since Sijo Emperado has given quite a bit of power to GGM Thomas Barros Mitose in the Kajukenbo organization. Hope that helps. Regards, Gary
     
  5. Mekosho

    Mekosho Yellow Belt

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    As far as likes and dislikes on Kosho Ryu, all I have is likes, I have studied Kosho for some time and I find it lacking nowhere!

    Now of course, there are many on here that will disagree, and the majority all go back to a time when Mitose visited a Parker school or something like that and the techniques he shared did not impress anyone...now, I have heard that explained this way; The techniques were for very advanced students and so to the untrained eye, they appeared to be useless, and this goes inline with Hanshi Juchnik's teachings that true martial arts looks like an accident, not like flowing flashing hollywood! But then again, who knows for sure except the ones that were really there!
    Another thing I tend to see alot is that Mr. Parker was the inovator of Kempo, that his idea to change kempo to better fit the individual was his totally unique way of thinking...this could be, but my instructor teaches us that Kempo is a study of motion, ALWAYS changing, and that is how it has always been! Again, who knows for sure. What I do know, is by time all is said and done, I will have achieved my rank from a very capable individual, one that has has been ranked or trained under Villari, recieved his fith degree from Cerio, recieved his 6th degree from Grandmaster Robert Hoe, a direct student of Simon Eli, who he has studied under for over 16 years, has been recognized as a BB of Kosho Ryu by Thomas Mitose and is appointed as regional director of the SKSK by Juchnik who also awarded Shihan with his Yudansha...One that I have every confidence in that I am getting the best training possible for me, and one that when he shares his theory or view point of the Kosho Ryu/James Mitose past, I tend to believe him over all the other, "I heard from a friend who knows someone that actually talked to a guy one time that was related to this dude who saw on the internet what really happened way back before most of us were born"!
    Oh, and before I am misread, I mean absolutly NO disrespect to Mr. Parker, he was a great Martial Artist and DID ALOT for Kempo as it is today...
     
  6. John Bishop

    John Bishop Master Black Belt

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    Here we go again :deadhorse
     
  7. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    hey mekosho private message me

    kelly
     
  8. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    good to hear from ya john


    kelly
     
  9. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    To, John Bishop,

    Hi Sigung, Don't you think this is a long over due talk regarding the Honerable standing of the persons (alive) who have all been involved.
    GGM Thomas Barro Mitose
    Hanshi Bruce Juchnik
    10th Dan Ray Arquilla
    et al

    The contemporay setting is all that I am after. These Honorable persons named above and any that want to place themselves among this group, should step forward and explain the position they are in relating to now..
    I know that whipping a dead horse is kind of a negative reply, but I am not taking it as such, because you did reply, that in itself is good enough for me, since I hold you in high regard.. Sincerely, Gary
     
  10. John Bishop

    John Bishop Master Black Belt

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    Why?, The debate about who is actually the head of Kosho Ryu Kenpo will outlive all of us.

    Some of the leading players.

    Thomas Barro Mitose
    Everyone who sticks to the party line that "James Mitose was the 21st Great Grandmaster of Kosho Ryu Kenpo" and that it is system that was passed down thru 21 generations of the Mitose family, should have no problems accepting Thomas Barro Mitose as the next head of his own family's system. He was James Mitose's oldest "legitimate" son. Neither of James's siblings, his brother or sister came forward to claim the title. According to James's testimony at his trial, his brother was also in Japan with him training at the family temple.

    Bruce Juchnik
    He was probably the last one to have philosophical and technical discussions with James Mitose before he died. He and several others worked toward attempting to obtain Mitose a parole. They set up the "Kosho Shorei Publishing Co" to show the Parole Board that James would have a legitimate way to make a living if paroled. They also contributed and helped raise funds to pay for Mitose's attorney.

    Nimr Hassan (Terry Lee)
    According to his own testimony he was a private student of James Mitose's for 6-7 weeks. That's 6-7 weeks!!. How much do you learn of a system in 6-7 weeks. His claim to fame is that he was Mitose's last student (before incarceration). According to court records he was promised a 4th degree in return for killing Frank Namimatsu.

    Ray Arquilla
    He was just another guy who visited Mitose in prison. All of the visitors received some type of "Master" certificate. In fact one of the other visitors was only a blue belt, but because he was highly educated, it was felt that he could write many of the documents and correspondances needed for the appeals and parole processes.

    The bigger question is; is there really such a thing as "Kosho Ryu Kenpo"?
     
  11. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hi John,

    There is a person in Ontario Canada. That has a real nice web site who states he is the Hanshi of Kohso Ryu Kempo, His name is Hanshi Richard Buchan.

    I will try to get in touch with him and see where he received his information from?
    I believe Hanshi Bruce and GMM Thomas Mitose still talk, I have a feeling if it was not for Hanshi Bruce, GMM Thomas Mitose whould not have had anything to do with his father.
    Estranged relations are sometimes very hard to over come. If you are to believe Hanshi Bruce (which I do ) he wrote a book about it.

    To Fall Seven To Rise Eight, It is a beautiful written book and is very nice to look at, Dark green Hard cover with Gold embossed letters and The Mon and Chinese or Kanji (your choice) writing, very nice. ( I have it in front of me now), I have read it several times.
    I don't know how someone could have written a book with the type of humility as that, if it was not from the heart.

    Sincerely, Gary
     
  12. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hi John,
    Back again I just went to the web site of www.koshoryu.com.

    The Web site is Kosho Ryu International, Hanshi Richard Buchan.
    The best I can figure is he is hooked up with Nimer Hassan (terry lee).

    When I checked out his name in Arabic It means (Leopard Assassin or Leopard Gate Keeper) Interesting Huh? Sincerely, Gary
     
  13. KenpoDave

    KenpoDave 2nd Black Belt

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    He is certainly not "just another guy."

    Sure there is. It may not be the ancient art that people think it is, but not all are. If there is no kenpo from Mitose, you are left with Kajubo.
     
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  14. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    The group your talking about in Canada used to be part of Hanshi Juchnik's group I think they have kinda skipped around to Thomas Barros and maybe later to Hassan, I'll ask Hanshi about them.

    kelly
     
  15. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    I actually have a technical question for you Mr. Bishop. When and where were the pinon katas that Kajukenbo does developed they are drasticly different than any of the japanese/okinawan versions I have seen.

    Kelly
     
  16. Karazenpo

    Karazenpo Guest

    Sigung John is right when he said: "Here we go again". I will answer the above and John can correct me if I'm wrong. The orignal 'pinans' of Kajukenbo have nothing to do with the 5 pinan Okinawan series. I'm going to guess Sijo Emperado originally called them pinans because he was told by his seniors that the original art that all these Hawaiian derived systems sprung from was 'Okinawan' in origin. Later, he decided to change the names to the 'Palama' sets to reflect the original Palama settlement where they were developed. Kelly, Professor Abregana is being as objective as humanly possible with his part of the A&E investigation and it does seem that there is an Okinawan connection through the Motobu lineage, not Motobu himself, but one of his first or second generation black belts by the name of Nabura Tanamaha. Again, we are awaiting information from Shihan Michael Brown as to a Japnese connection with Mitose. Information provided to me by Shihan Brown is very interesting and does connect Mitose to Japan but not to the Yoshida clan. I realize all will have to see these documents released to the public so they may be scrutinized. We are all awaiting this release. I can also say Shihan Brown is a very respected martial artist in my area and he is totally committed to investigating this controversial subject. As far as I go, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I just would like to have the facts straight when I am asked by students and, to be honest, my own curiosity. Regardless of the outcome, it does seem Mitose taught something that he called Kenpo and should he had wished to change it to Kosho ryu and we find it is totally Okinawan in origin that is a fitting name since one of the spelling of Kusanku (Chinese emmissary/general who who is acredited to bringing his interpretation of Chinese Kung Fu to Okinawa) is also spelled 'Kosho'kan. Now, the only lineage that William Chow can be traced through a 'paper trail' is Mitose's with Chow's black belt certificate signed by Thomas Young, Mitose's first black belt. Pictures also show Chow training under Mitose. Again, if one believes in lineage then there is no way Mitose can be cut out of it and for the 100th time, no, I don't condone his criminal activities, hey, I've been a cop for almost 28 years, I would have put him away myself if I was assigned to the case. Although my students are taught of his place in our lineage they are also told of his dark side. To me, imho, that's the way to handle it! I know many, for good reason, wish to deny his position but doing so would be historically inaccurate. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

    PS: As far as all the other 'garbage' goes, it seems these days everything revolves around the 'Almighty $' , many do have 'hidden agendas' for what they do but they are not all that 'hidden', just look for EGO & MONEY and you'll find the true answers. Personally, I'm getting tired of it all! Too much damn commercialism and too many people wanting to be the baddest dude on the planet. You think a lesson would have been learned in that not even Iron Mike Tyson could fullfill that fantasy!
     
  17. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hi Professor,

    I was waiting for your reply, which as always, was good and to the point.

    My agenda is the truth, and ''NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH". Easy for us to know where I came up with that one! <(:cool:..

    Regarding, "here we go again", I had to begin the thread because it is from a different angle. I'd like to hear from anyone pro, con, good, bad.

    The ball is rolling, and it's not going to stop regarding the A&E Documentary. The issues are not as simple as my questions.

    Many Agenda's involved and much at stake for quite a few individuals. It would be nice to think the Documentary will be honest and non-political. However with some of the comments made, I can see that Hanshi Bruce will be a footnote, rather than a chapter, that would be unfortunate and inaccurate.

    Over many years, during his travels, Mike Brown has gathered information for Hanshi Bruce Juchnik regarding the history and documentation of GGM James M. Mitose.

    Professor, do whatever is necessary to bring the Truth foreward. If you are a player, let us have the Truth.

    As in the movie "A Few Good Men", I CAN handle The Truth! Can others on this board say the same?

    Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo is not the Latin of Martial Arts. A half a century of Martial Arts Geniuses... Sijo Emperado, the late Ed Parker, Al Tracy, and Hanshi Bruce Juchnik have added to this living martial art known as Kempo/Kenpo.

    Hanshi Bruce Juchnik is a person who stood by James Mitose in his last half decade. Thru thick and thin, Hanshi has tried to spread the Mitose Martial Art as personally taught him by GGM James M. Mitose. GGM Mitose authorized Hanshi Bruce to teach and develop the GGM Mitose Martial Arts as he saw fit.

    Only a closed mind would claim that there is nothing to be learned from all the existing Martial Arts Systems, and each major master in every martial art has an agenda... except for my personal favorite... Motobu Choki or Choki Motobu.

    Regards, Gary
     
  18. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    Thank you Professor

    The reason behind my questions about the Kajukenbo Pinons is this. The Kajukenbo version of pinon shodan is almost the same as the neko buto kata we do in kosho ryu.
    The neko buto was taught to Bruce Juchnik by Robert Trias who learned them from James Mitose. If this is true then it suggests a link between the two katas and raises questions about statements being made about Mitose only teaching and knowing Nai Han Chi.
    Also in accordance with a post John Bishop made in a seperate thread there was a lot of cross training going on back then so Mitose going to another school to train in an Okinawan style is not unplausible. Especially if Mitose and Motobu new each other in Japan.
    Then again if Mitose made the whole Kosho Ryu thing up. The more power to him. When GoJu ryu came to Hawaii in 1928 it was approximatly 14 years old. Parker created his system starting in the fiftees. chinese kempo, kajukenbo. None of these systems are so ancient that they can really claim a leg up on any one else.

    My only concern about the A&E special is that it seems that nobody has contacted Hanshi Juchnik. I am concerned because I know he has some of the documentation pertaining to Mitose in his time in Hawaii. Plus the fact he was one of Mitose's last students. He also has hours of video tape interviews with people who were around when Mitose was in Hawaii. Has anyone from A&E contacted Mike Brown and tried to get some of his information. Lastly, I have tried to get John Bishop to contact Hanshi Juchnik concerening information Hanshi Juchnik has that Mr. Bishop wanted to see. Yet when given the oppurtunity Mr. Bishop declined. So my Question is why aren't these people being sought out. I'm not saying that the Bruce Juchnik/Kosho version of the truth is what the A&E special should be about. If a police officer is investigating a crime and he hears that some one might have valuble info regarding that crime. Doesn't he have a responsibility to follow that lead up. Not doing so might be considered lack of due dilligence on his part. It could lead to the crime not being solved. Or worse yet, the wrong person being convicted.
    So what I'm saying is this; Jaime Abregana and John Bishop in conjuction with A&E have a lead that needs to be followed up. If they do not follow it up then they are doing a great disservice to the martial arts community as a whole.

    kelly
     
  19. kelly keltner

    kelly keltner Black Belt

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    One more thing off the topic Hanshi Bruce Juchnik's annual gathering will be in Portland Oregon this year in September. Information can be obtained at www.collectivesociety.com or private message me if anyone has any questions.

    kelly
     
  20. Karazenpo

    Karazenpo Guest

    First let me say Gary is right in stating many have much at stake. So, why should anyone put any credence into what I am reporting? Very simple. I have NOTHING at stake. I am not the 'creator' of some new 'kick ass' style nor am I a successor to some lineage passed on from generation to generation. I'm just a simple guy who is trying to survive on the street as a cop who wants to get home to his family at the end of his tour and a guy who wants to pass on the art but not a myth or give his students a false sense of security passed on by egocentric dojo warriors who don't have a clue what it's like to use what they know in reality situations. Am I being kind of harsh, yeah, a little bit but like I said before, I'm getting tired of the 'whitewash' that's been going on in the martial arts for many years now. Kelly, I have to return a phone call to Professor Jaimie Abregana, it has nothing to do with the A&E investigation but as a courtesy to you, I will give you input on this situation. I promise. Some kenpo/kempo people are claiming they have a superior martial art...B.S. As long as you system encompasses hands, feet and grappling, standing or on the ground thenyou have a solid, well rounded martial art. Take something out of that formular and then maybe, yes, you do have an INFERIOR marital art and why? Simple, because it doesn't allow for all the possibiliteis that can happen in a real encounter. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras
     

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