Koryukai

rdonovan1

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I just thought that I would share with everyone the truth behind the Koryukai that they mention in the movie 'BloodSport'.

According to Wikipedia the Koryukai was a real orgainization that was founded in 1901 but was later disbanded in 1961.

Unlike the movie though they did not have anything to do with testing the fighting skills of it's members.

If anyone is interested in learning more about who they really were and what they really did you can look them up for yourselve's on the internet.

I looked it up on google under the name of Black Dragon Society and that is what I came up with.
 

Bruno@MT

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If anyone is interested in learning more about who they really were and what they really did you can look them up for yourselve's on the internet.

Good thing the internet never lies. Just like the newspapers. ;)
 
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rdonovan1

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Good thing the internet never lies. Just like the newspapers. ;)

I might have misspelled the Japanese name, but it is still the same society. My spelling seems to have gone downhill while I was an over the road truck driver and apparently it needs a little bit of work.

If you thought that was interesting, then check out the recent article that I posted related to a robbery that happened in L.A. It's the kind of thing that tends to make you sit up and take notice of what is going on around you with society and with the Internet in general.
 
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rdonovan1

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黒龍会 Koku(black) Ryu(dragon) Kai(organization/society)=Kokuryukai

I always thought of it as some sort of Yakuza. What does this have to do with Ninjutsu?

It has a lot to do with it because Frank Dux claimed to have been trained by Senzo Tanaka in ninjutsu and he claimed that he fought in the kumite and won.

The movie that is supposedly based on his real life claims that the Kokuryukai organized the kumite.

I don't know if they threw that in the movie just to make it sound better or not or as to whether Frank Dux ever claimed that it was organized by the Kokuryukai, but it would be interesting to find out because if he ever does or did make any statement like that, then this will surely blow his story about him being trained in ninjutsu clean apart as the KoKuryukai could not have organized any fights after 1961.

Like I said if anyone is really interested then can look it up on the internet. Maybe they might find something more that can either deny or prove his claims. As I said in another thread I personally think his claims are false all the way around and that he made the whole thing up.
 

Chris Parker

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Hi rdonovan1,

No.

This has been discussed thoroughly again and again, here and everywhere else. Without fraudbusting, if I can, there is no basis in any records, history, evidence, peoples, demonstrations, claims, or any other form, of anything even resembling reality in Dux's "version" of things. I wouldn't bring such things up as "facts", you'll probably just get laughed off the page. Friendly words here. As I said before, you do not have the requisite knowledge to be posting any kind of facts in regard to Ninjutsu in particular, but really martial arts in general from everything you have posted so far. I recommend (once again) that, if you want to know about Ninjutsu as it has survived to today, get a teacher. And to be sure they are legit, choose from the Bujinkan, Genbukan, or Jinenkan. There are other legit split-off organisations, but it is safer to stick with the Big 3.

And stick to asking questions. But be willing to recieve the answers.
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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It is doutful that the Kokuryukai staged kumite like death matches. They are like Yakuza but more of a political movement seems there is a thin line between politics,Yakuza and religion as seen with the different new age sects in Japan becoming political organizations.

The Yakuza do have dealings in certain sports Sumo was in the news of Japan recently concerning Yakuza.

Bloodsport is a movie full of oddities and doubtful claims.

As for Frank Dux there is a member here who actually trains with him. He enjoys the training. Dux mentions training with Tanaka in Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu. However there is no such name because it is incorrect wording.
A Yamabushi school would be called ryu for example:Dake ryu or the school of Dake. Dake ryu is a legit school of Yamabushi kagura(sacred dance) it would be incorrect to call it Dake Yamabushi.

But this is boarding on fraudbusting and there is enough evidence out there to draw your own conclusion on the subject.

And the Kokuryukai most likely had nothing to do with Ninjutsu. It had espionage and all that but I don't think it was Ninjutsu it was mostly basic networking used in the time period of the Sino-Japanese war so how much of it if any was Ninjutsu and where they recieved the information is anyone's guess but I doubt it came from some secret ninja clan and most likely came from some form of military training in fact look at Akashi Motojiro.
 
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rdonovan1

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It is doutful that the Kokuryukai staged kumite like death matches. They are like Yakuza but more of a political movement seems there is a thin line between politics,Yakuza and religion as seen with the different new age sects in Japan becoming political organizations.

The Yakuza do have dealings in certain sports Sumo was in the news of Japan recently concerning Yakuza.

Bloodsport is a movie full of oddities and doubtful claims.

As for Frank Dux there is a member here who actually trains with him. He enjoys the training. Dux mentions training with Tanaka in Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu. However there is no such name because it is incorrect wording.
A Yamabushi school would be called ryu for example:Dake ryu or the school of Dake. Dake ryu is a legit school of Yamabushi kagura(sacred dance) it would be incorrect to call it Dake Yamabushi.

But this is boarding on fraudbusting and there is enough evidence out there to draw your own conclusion on the subject.

And the Kokuryukai most likely had nothing to do with Ninjutsu. It had espionage and all that but I don't think it was Ninjutsu it was mostly basic networking used in the time period of the Sino-Japanese war so how much of it if any was Ninjutsu and where they recieved the information is anyone's guess but I doubt it came from some secret ninja clan and most likely came from some form of military training in fact look at Akashi Motojiro.

I think that you are right and I personally think that they probably just used the name to make the movie more appealing to the movie going public. Nothing more than a sales and marketing gimmick employed by Hollywood.
 

tenzen

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apparently dux was not his only student. dux had a training partner, who changed his name later to harunaka hoshino. funny how one says its koga the other says its fuma. oh by the way hoshino is the soke of fuma ryu ninjutsu. mostly found in england only he lives in san fransisco. he is chinese by the way. draw your own conclusions. i really don't care personally because i would never train with them. but hoshino was part of the spear head of the ninja boom during the eighties. he was in the majority of the ninja magazines. thought i would throw this out to see what comes back on it.
 
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rdonovan1

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Supposedly Tadashi Yamashita is a ninja master as well, but from what I understand the only one that is truly recognized as being any sort of ninja master is Masaaki Hatsumi.

All the rest are reported to be nothing more than self pro-claimed ninja masters with no documentation or support to back up any of their claims.
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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Dean does a great job here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai8Tt8xcoF8&feature=related
Some videos of Frank Dux. IMO Dux has some skill if he just would call it something else he could be a decent martial artist.

Thats the thing some of the Kouga neo ninjutsu are really not bad martial artist they have some skills(some are just awful and painful to watch) the problem lays in the whole we are ninja thing and the constant oddities and questionable claims. I tend to think of it as Cowboys. You have legit historians who show you how things were done historically and you have the role players who shoot cap guns and dress up like Kevin Costner

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzgVZIkazXY&feature=related

Now picture them all Japanese and you get the exact reversal thing with people claiming to be ninjas.
 
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Obi Wan Shinobi

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Yeah anything with Frank Dux you take it to the fiction section. The man had Soldier of Fortune Magazine spotlight his fraudulent use of military decorations, and his wild claims of being a C.I.A. Officer when he was a Motor Transport Reserve Marine.
But the Kokuryukai was a Japanese Nationalist organization that worked to expand the Japanese Empire. They did use espionage tactics in China, Korea and other Southeast Asian countries. Now I personally always wondered and this is just me pondering. But I always wondered if Takamatsu Sensei was affiliated with the Kokuryukai being that he spent a considerable time in China. Probably not but who knows? Just a thought though. But with that Dux guy getting a movie made on his fictional life...I wish someone could do is make a accurate movie on the life of Takamatsu Sensei. That would be a great tribute to a great martial arts Master. We got all these crazy ninja movies that stereotype what ninjutsu is. It would be nice to see a movie showing the true essence of ninjutsu of the last Ninja Master O'Sensei Takamatsu....
 
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Bruno@MT

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I read that Takamatsu mainly went to China because he wanted to test his fighting skills, and going to China enabled him to do just that.

On one hand it would be nice to have a movie based on Takamatsu sensei, but otoh, due to what the general public wants, it would probably not show any real skill, but mainly consists of lots of spinning back kicks and other showy crap.
 

Josh Oakley

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Yeah anything with Frank Dux you take it to the fiction section. The man had Soldier of Fortune Magazine spotlight his fraudulent use of military decorations, and his wild claims of being a C.I.A. Officer when he was a Motor Transport Reserve Marine.
But the Kokuryukai was a Japanese Nationalist organization that worked to expand the Japanese Empire. They did use espionage tactics in China, Korea and other Southeast Asian countries. Now I personally always wondered and this is just me pondering. But I always wondered if Takamatsu Sensei was affiliated with the Kokuryukai being that he spent a considerable time in China. Probably not but who knows? Just a thought though. But with that Dux guy getting a movie made on his fictional life...I wish someone could do is make a accurate movie on the life of Takamatsu Sensei. That would be a great tribute to a great martial arts Master. We got all these crazy ninja movies that stereotype what ninjutsu is. It would be nice to see a movie showing the true essence of ninjutsu of the last Ninja Master O'Sensei Takamatsu....

First, Soldier of Fortune's stuff was thrown out of court. Second, that's Fraudbusting. Third, I've seen his DD214 and his discharge papers. He was never a reservist, and he was in fact an intel specialist.

My guess is you've never actually seen personally ANY of the documents in question.

I have. Still I keep quiet. Frankly, you should too, as I'm guessing you don't even have real research to back it up (as in PRIMARY sources).
 

Josh Oakley

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It has a lot to do with it because Frank Dux claimed to have been trained by Senzo Tanaka in ninjutsu and he claimed that he fought in the kumite and won.

The movie that is supposedly based on his real life claims that the Kokuryukai organized the kumite.

I don't know if they threw that in the movie just to make it sound better or not or as to whether Frank Dux ever claimed that it was organized by the Kokuryukai, but it would be interesting to find out because if he ever does or did make any statement like that, then this will surely blow his story about him being trained in ninjutsu clean apart as the KoKuryukai could not have organized any fights after 1961.

Like I said if anyone is really interested then can look it up on the internet. Maybe they might find something more that can either deny or prove his claims. As I said in another thread I personally think his claims are false all the way around and that he made the whole thing up.

Wikipedia says they reconstituted as the Black Dragon Club in 1961. I'm loathe to quote wikipedia, but if it's true, wouldn't that make sense that it could have organized it?
 

elder999

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Wikipedia says they reconstituted as the Black Dragon Club in 1961. I'm loathe to quote wikipedia, but if it's true, wouldn't that make sense that it could have organized it?


The wiki cites this book as the source of that information. Brian Victoria's reputation in regards to scholarship on Zen is fairly decent, especially his two books Zen War Stories, and Zen Goes to War, but I have to wonder about his source, since it appears to be the only place-to my knowledge- this is mentioned, and the book itself (Zen War Stories) is fairly controversial........a quick look into the book reveals that not much mention is made of the Balck Dragon Society (it appears in 4 places, including 2 index entries referencing the other 2) and, while it does say that there was a Black Dragon Club formed in 1961, it has no footnotes, and I don't exactly have time for an item by item perusal of the bibliography, so there's no telling where the author got that information....
 

Josh Oakley

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Personally, I think it was the Black Dragon Fighting Society that put on the Kumite. They've been around long enough to do it and had sufficient motivation, and most people I've talked to who actually saw the events were BDFS.
 

Josh Oakley

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The wiki cites this book as the source of that information. Brian Victoria's reputation in regards to scholarship on Zen is fairly decent, especially his two books Zen War Stories, and Zen Goes to War, but I have to wonder about his source, since it appears to be the only place-to my knowledge- this is mentioned.

Part of why I'm loathe to quote wiki. I like primary sources as much as possible.
 

elder999

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Personally, I think it was the Black Dragon Fighting Society that put on the Kumite. They've been around long enough to do it and had sufficient motivation, and most people I've talked to who actually saw the events were BDFS.


You mean, the outfit run by this guy? :lfao:
 

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