Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association

[Captain Harlock]

Is this childishness still going on? I was under the impression that the head child had left the building and we could get back to friendly discourse rather than wild witch hunts, vendettas and other such nonsense.

"Rick", do you have anything of any value to say on this forum, or are you only here to raise old dead issues? I've read your last few posts and I see no content outside of bringing up old news.

I stopped bothering to read half the forums here because it seemed every thread for the last few months degenerated into a menjo check. I only came back because a friend said the gang war was over.

 

[Shuri-te]

Rick,

Hmmm. No reply to my question regarding what in my email to Ryu were "pretty mean [words] regarding Stafford". You know Ryu had a reputation on this board for not answering questions when they didn't suit his purpose. I was on the receiving end of that twice. In both cases, he would ask other questions in response, and demand you answer his before he answered your's.

I have several questions for you.

On this board are eight thousand threads. You have posted to 8. Why did you choose those out of all 8,000. All of yours posts, except one, (your post on this thread) were made within hours of the prior post. (They are all recent threads.)

It has been my experience that when new people join, they go out and read what interests them, and even if the thread has been dormant for a week or two, or even a month, newbies will pick it up, as we would expect them to.

But your picking of only recent posts to comment on has a hint of rejoining discussions one was well aware of. I will give you this compliment. Up until your post to this thread, all were made in a polite friendly style. I told one mod that you (Rick) were Dr Jekyll to Ryu's Hyde.

How is it that after these 7 nice posts, you, a newbie, decided to attack ARK and Mr. Stern. But my real question is why did you choose this particular style of attack. If you go back to all the criticisms of ARK, you can see a variety of approaches. I would say the norm is that there is often one or two unfriendly statements coupled with an obnoxious question (perhaps one that has been repeatedly answered).

But Ryu has had a distinct style. He is virtually the only one who would launch a barrage of questions, and intersperse those with unfriendly statements. So let's look at 8th thread you posted on. (Remember, the first 7 were diplomatic and informative.)

You joined this thread with a post with 19 sentences. More than half, (10) were questions. Many of the other 9 were downright unfriendly.

1. So you admit he has a background of being dishonest then.

2. How can he be trusted since he has lied about his background before?

3. You both seem good at making martial arts organizations on paper to give rank to people but you then say rank has no meaning

4. You are the guy that I have been reading about that always says rank has no meaning for you but you are a member of a group that recognizes it.

5. Sounds like you are cheating people or just lying to them since the organization you belong exists for the purpose of doing what you don't believe in.

6. Why give rank if it has no meaning?

7. Why even talk about it?

8. You seem to talk about it alot therefore I think you really care about it no matter what you write here.

9. Why would you say one thing but do another?

10. After reading some of what you write on here it seems to be you way to do things.

11. Based on what I have read I don’t trust him or you.

12. What gives them the right to recognize rank?

13. Why do they recognize rank?

14. Which grandmasters?

15. Which leaders?

16. What does he give seminar in?

17. If that’s the case great!

18. Have him come to my dojo and teach seminar for free.

19. When can he come?

If you choose only one question to answer (I have given you many) it is this. How can an Okinawan by birth come to this US based board as a newbie, and choose this one thread, out of 8,000, to launch this tirade against ARK and Mr. Stern. These people have done nothing against you, and nothing against your alter ego Ryu. Why is it that you chose to violate the founding principle of this forum (friendly discussion) when you decided to change from friendly contributor to grand inquisitor?

Here's another question. Since you joined within hours of Kaith deleting your account, (on the 17th) but show no post until the 20th, I have been curious whether you voted on Kaith's survey for Ryu? (yourself?) If so, perhaps you can share with us which category you picked. Hero, or "Kaith is an idiot." I always wondered whether you (re)joined to artificially influence the outcome of the vote. (I can share my vote. No surprises here that I am in the 40% block for zero.)

I would imagine that whatever you say can be checked by the mgmt for verification.

Here is a hypothetical question for Kaith. I wonder what other IDs were created on the 16th through the 18th, prior to the survey being shut down, and which of these might have voted, never to be used again. And of these, how did they vote?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Question "Is RT also RR"?

Answer: At this moment, I can not say with any certainty one way or the other. All I can say is, they are both in Japan.


Question "Is RSK violating any rules if in fact he is RT?"

Answer: No, other than the 'real name' rule.


Questions: "Survey information", "Votes"

Answer: We are not at liberty to disclose that information. Considering that the majority was not solidly behind RSK (being either in the middle or negative), it it a moot point. As to who voted me an idiot, it was again, a moot point.


Question: "Verification of Identity, location, individuality".

Answer: I am investigating. Short of a court supena of the ISP's records, we can not be 100% certain. This will not happen for many reasons, the bigest being its pretty stupid to get a court order over a few PITA posts. We do not have a reliable means of ensuring honesty, short of switching to a paid by credit card membership (which required ID info) which we will not do. I will be posting the results within 24 hours of my investigation. I am using the means we do have to research it. No, I won't be posting all of what we do to check.



Concerning dead topics, old news, doing others business, etc. - Folks, if you aint got something nice to say, don't say it. I've got enough headaches at the moment. I'm sure most of us also have better things to do.


Rick, at this time, you are welcome to stay, but it would be apreciated if you would work in a positive manner here.

Dave, Mike, etc - We've heard your concerns and are looking into them. The last thing we want on here is a reverse inquisition going on.

Keep it polite, and friendly...or at least growl quieter.

Thank you,

 

[jdmills]

It seems all of us Kenpo guys here should be a little more understanding regarding a person's mistakes. (remember, this thread was originally concerning "Grandmaster" Stern's conviction for illegal use of a CMH). In 1974, "James" Masayoshi Mitose was tried and convicted of extortion and murder. He was sentenced to Folsom prison, where he died on March 27, 1981. These are the American Kenpo roots from which we all came. I don't like it either but it is an acknowleged fact. It sure doesn't mean that Kenpo stinks or that Edmund K. Parker was somehow illegitimate.

 

[A.R.K.]

Bob,

No problems here It would seem there are one of two scenerios here. Either Mr. Tsubota is indeed who he claims to be, in which case he has decided to take up Robert's ways which is sad or he is Robert using an alias to restart problems which is pathetic.

However, either way a positive can come out of it. If Rick is really Rick [a separate person] and decides to contribute in a positive way and leaves hostilities at the door...everyone wins. If Rick is really Robert [the same person] but decides to turn a new leaf [which is yet to happen] and begins to post in a friendly manner...everyone wins.

If either is in the negative then I fully support whatever action if any that admin decides to take. Either way, I'm enjoying the direction the board has taken and enjoy learning and contributing.

My hats off to you and the other Admins for the work you put into this board. It shows.

:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

Kaith,
Thank you for your explanations. I know that tracing the source with an ISP wasn't really feasible. And therefore there may never be certainty whether any poster A is really poster B. And without that, the poster is presumed innocent.

As I noted in one of my posts, Rick participated in a friendly manner on his first 7 threads. (Many of those pleasant exchanges were with me.) He then came to this thread, and I doubt any on the management team would call his post to ARK friendly. I came to ARK's defense and the rest is history.

If you look at the threads Rick has participated on, there is a seven-to-one ratio of friendliness to unfriendliness. In retrospect, all things considered regarding his alleged background, that is really not all that bad. Hopefully he will want to keep his contribution ratio somewhere in that range, and if so, just might be a positive force on MT.

We'll see.

Thanks for your input.

 

[A.R.K.]

Shuri Te

I appreciate you stepping up to bat for me in my abscense

It's fairly obvious what the situation is. But I'm all for giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. And if it is Robert posting under another name, well if he takes this opportunity to redeem himself, I'm all for giving him the fair opportunity.

We all make mistakes. We all make poor choices occasionally. And we all have had instances which we would like to take back or do over. I believe a true warrior is suppose to be humble and forgiving. Robert had no justifiable cause to take the route he choose with anyone, Rick certainly had no justifiable cause to post in the manner he did in this thread. But forgiveness is extended to him/them now. What he/they do from here will mark them as to their character and intent on this board. We shall soon see.

Thank you again.

:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

ARK,

Your generous words of forgiveness are an inspiration to us all.

Let's all move on and endeavor to make positive contributions to MT. Then we all gain. As Captain Harlock has reminded us:

"I stopped bothering to read half the forums here because it seemed every thread for the last few months degenerated into a menjo check. I only came back because a friend said the gang war was over."

It is up to all of us to resist letting MT slide once again into a mudslinging site, because if we do, we all lose.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This particular thread has wandered all over the place.

Don Roley started this about Jack Stern. The conclusion is that he did violate the law, and was found guilty. The applicable laws were posted. Don Roley and Robert Carver put out a good bulk of information on the original topic. It then got into the realm of personal opinion about CNN, who said what, and I think the existence of the Easter Bunny. As we wander on, old questions on the reputations of certain members were yet again dredged up and rehashed by several people. We then get into the question on if someone really exists. Pretty far journey wouldn’t you all say? Another interesting point is that certain individuals involved had very little respect for those with differing opinions. Sarcasm literally dripped off of several posts. Suffice to say, this isn’t what this forum is for.

I'll be posting my conclusion shortly.

 

[Disco]

You may want to give it a little more time. I have it on good authority that both ABC and NBC may be interested for a new series or at the least a made for TV movie. The only problem is that Ozzie Osborne is bidding for the rights and he wants the lead part. I wonder who he will play?......

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Disco
You may want to give it a little more time. I have it on good authority that both ABC and NBC may be interested for a new series or at the least a made for TV movie. The only problem is that Ozzie Osborne is bidding for the rights and he wants the lead part. I wonder who he will play?......

**Blink**

**Blink**

:rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I did alot of reading, searching, checking of IP addresses, and other information. The following is the official statement
=====
When someone new shows up, and picks up arguments that were usually associated with a past controversial figure, it is to be expected that some questions will be raised.

A past example of this is where “Platinum Angel” picked up where Jonathan Napalm left off. In this case, evidence pinpointed that both individuals were using the same computer to visit us, even though a surface look indicated they were 2000 miles apart.

In the case of the RSK/RT question, it is a little harder to determine.

Here are the facts as I’ve seen them:

Both individuals are in Japan.
Both train together.
Both have seen certain information that was known to RSK.
Both have accessed MT from the same local ISP.
Both have had a couple of IP addresses overlap. There are also Ips that are unique. In the case noted above, there were minimal unique qualifiers.
Both –may- have used the same PC to access MT, but given the samples proves nothing. For example, many of my Ips match Renegades. There are over 50 individuals on this forum alone who will vouch that we are not the same person.

I have re-read Mr. Tsubota’s posts here, and run them thru a limited analysis. The samples indicate a few minor similarities, however the ‘bulk’ of the text indicates 2 different people. (Differences in style, readability and approximate "grade" level of the writing style)

In addition, several individuals with no interest in the issue have vouched that there are in fact 2 people.

While there is no way for me to be 100% certain without a trip to Japan and personally meeting with both individuals, it is my conclusion that Rick is not Robert, and Robert is not Rick.

I would like to make a short summary of the 22 posts I have seen of Ricks:
The posts in the Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association thread while having some of the same focus as RSKs, did not have the same "feeling". Points were made that are not refutable, and were within the limits set for the ‘Bad Budo’ forum. The negative is that many were a rehash of old news.

The rest of his posts were of a helpful and beneficial nature, without the ‘feel’ of RSK’s posts.

In conclusion, based on my research, and my ‘gut’ feeling on this, I have to conclude that they are not the same individual. In addition, I have found much useful information in Mr. Tsubota’s limited number of posts and hope he continues to visit and help us improve.

A side note: Many are happy that the ‘fraud busters’ are gone. I for one am not. Without questions, anyone can claim anything. Questions make you think, and without thinking, we are nothing. My issue was in how things were done, not that they were done. Tactics that one side used and were condemned for are used by the other side who then pats themselves on the back and says how good they are. I’ll be blunt – I have a problem with dual standards and rewritten histories. If you use the tools of that which you hate, how are you any better? Gang warfare on MartialTalk is not part of our mission statement, and I am seriously considering blanket booting of groups that collectively disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. My goal for this site is to be both friendly -and- informative.

I intend to see those goals met.

 

[A.R.K.]

I would suggest that this issue has been talked out about as much as it can be. If anyone has any further questions for me specifically my email is readily available.

:asian:

 

[Rick Tsubota]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
In conclusion, based on my research, and my ‘gut’ feeling on this, I have to conclude that they are not the same individual. In addition, I have found much useful information in Mr. Tsubota’s limited number of posts and hope he continues to visit and help us improve.

Maybe some people can say they are sorry for saying I am RSK.

 

[A.R.K.]

Well, I for one would like to welcome you here to MT. I have not read all of your contributions yet, but I found most to be very informative. I look forward to future conversations with you on points of mutual interest.

Also I will admit that I was very cautious based on a few of your posts. I feel that caution was justifible considering current events that have only briefly pasted. You have my apology and again my welcome.

:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

Rick,

Great to have you here!!

 

[DAC..florida]

O.K.

Maybe Mr. Stern made a mistake, who has'nt done something that they are less than proud of. My point is who are we to point the finger or judge anyone! If you feel that this man is someone whom you do not wish to ascosiate with that is your choice.
:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

DAC,

Perhaps you might reconsider resurrecting this thread. So many feel it is time to move on. This horse is beaten, dead, died, rotted, turned to dust, scattered to four corners of the world.

So have some heart here. Does MT really need another food fight and another locked thread. Let's just recognize that any further discussion of Mr. Stern on MT is going to be counterproductive.

You recently created a thread called "How come all the good threads get locked." It resulted in yet another free-for-all, something no one gained from, and finally had to be locked, the fourth in a very short period.

DAC, in all due respect, if I were you, I would take Kaith's final words on that thread seriously.

"the NEXT! person to dig up something from here, is gone."

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Shuri-te
DAC,

Perhaps you might reconsider resurrecting this thread. So many feel it is time to move on. This horse is beaten, dead, died, rotted, turned to dust, scattered to four corners of the world.

So have some heart here. Does MT really need another food fight and another locked thread. Let's just recognize that any further discussion of Mr. Stern on MT is going to be counterproductive.

You recently created a thread called "How come all the good threads get locked." It resulted in yet another free-for-all, something no one gained from, and finally had to be locked, the fourth in a very short period.

DAC, in all due respect, if I were you, I would take Kaith's final words on that thread seriously.

"the NEXT! person to dig up something from here, is gone."

Maybe you misunderstood my meaning here I thouhgt that this thread has gotton off topic I am not trying to start or restart anything I never personaly attacked anyone in my above post.


I know that this issue has been discussed and that there have been good points on both sides all I'm trying to say is Mr. Stern made a mistake and even he has admitted that but I also feel that he has paid his debt to the public and it should'nt follow him forever, everyone of us have some kind of a past even if its when we were juveniles we have all done wrong. I guess my point is that I feel he is a good man with a great organization and no-one can see past his mistakes to see this, I hope that god is more forgiving than man or we will all burn in hell.
:asian:

 

[arnisador]

I emphasize that the warning given earlier will be strongly enforced. Further beating of the dead horses will result in suspensions.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-