Korean Sword Art?

[MBuzzy]

Has anyone ever heard of a Korean Sword Art? If so, do you know the name or any background information on it?

Thanks!

 

[Dave Leverich]

There are a few; Gumdo/Kumdo (simply pronunciation). Haidong Gumdo is the 'largest' from what I've seen as far as being widespread. I could be wrong, simply from the things I've seen. Both seem to almost purely stem from Kendo (in fact the character is the same), due to the Japanese occupation of Korea.

The one difference I did see posted in one place, was that the blade is generally 3-4 inches longer than the equivalent Katana, again, this was BB magazine, a number of years ago.

My organization is doing 'Oh Sung Do' which, as near as I can tell, is purely the Chinese butterfly sword.

I'm not sure if there is a purely indigenous sword, perhaps something from the temple walls can shed light upon that, but everything that I've personally seen has been due to proximity to China, and the Japanese occupation. (Again, that's just my take on it).

 

[Don Roley]

Here is a group that has been teaching a reconstituted Korean art.

http://www1.suwon.ac.kr/~bluekb/videolist-e.html

Here is a thread talking about the subject matter here on martialtalk.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40288

 

[howard]

Our Hapkido organization, the Jungkikwan, has a sword art called Chung Suk Kuhapdo.

It is heavily influenced by the Japanese art Muso Jikiden Eishin Rryu. Our kwan's head is a student of the headmaster of one of the branches of MJER, Sekiguchi Komei.

 

[Ninjamom]

There are several indigenous Korean sword arts, several 'reconstructed' sword arts, and several that have been borrowed directly from the Japanese arts.

Bonkuk Gumpup (literally "Our Land sword techniques") is a native Korean sword form that is documented back to at least the 1700's.

Gicheon is a temple-based martial art that has a sword component. As far as I have been able to tell, this art is an indigenous Korean sword art. The forms show Chinese influence in style, but it is possibly an earlier Korean sword art than Bonkuk Gumpup. See more information on Gicheon here.

Sip Palge (lit. '18 methods') is a reconstruction of ancient Korean weapons arts, including sword and crescent spear among others, whose techniques are based on written manuals of military training methods from the early 1700's.

Muye E Ship Sa Ban ('24 warrior ways') is a reconstruction of 24 different fighting techniques (23 with weapons, including at least two sword styles, and 1 empty-handed method) based on military training records from the late 1700's.

Shim Gumdo is a very recent (1930's? 1940's?) native Korean sword form based on the meditations of a Buddhist monk in a monastery, as a key to 'mind-sword enlightenment'. The monk moved from Korea to the USA, where he currently teaches his sword art to students in a Buddhist training center near Boston, MA. (I swear I am not making this up.)

Haidong Gumdo (in all its varieties, including Daehan Haidong Gumdo, Hankuk Haedong Gumdo, Saegye Haedong Kumdo, Chon-tong Muye Haidong Gumdo, Kukjae Haedong Kumdo, and others) is a recent native Korean sword art (established 1970's) based primarily on Gicheon, with some elements from Shim Gumdo and some adaptations from 18th century military manuals.

Hangumdo is another modern art, pulling in elements of haedong kumdo, Japanese arts, and the Korean alphabet. Strike names and combinations are drawn from and named after the strokes required to form the letters in Hangeul (the Korean alphabet).

Daehan Kumdo, Hankuk Kumdo, and several others are direct imports of Japanese Kendo, some dating to before the occupation (late 1800's).

Guhapdo (also spelled Kuhapdo) are Korean versions of Japanese iaido, mostly based on MJER, imported during the WWII occupation.

Adding to the confusion, ALL of these arts are considered 'kumdo', because in Korean, 'kumdo' means 'sword way'.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Sip Palge (lit. '18 methods') is a reconstruction of ancient Korean weapons arts, including sword and crescent spear among others, whose techniques are based on written manuals of military training methods from the early 1700's.

Muye E Ship Sa Ban ('24 warrior ways') is a reconstruction of 24 different fighting techniques (23 with weapons, including at least two sword styles, and 1 empty-handed method) based on military training records from the late 1700's.quote]

I find these very interesting as there is a similar element of Shaolin known as 18 weapons and I'm pretty sure that in Japan there are, or were, some schools that taught 24 techniques, but these also included horsemanship and such things. Which way influences went I don't know, but I suspect the Chinese may be the oldest and the Japanese and Korean of similar date.

 

[Ninjamom]

Sip Palge (lit. '18 methods')........
>
>
Muye E Ship Sa Ban ('24 warrior ways') .....

I find these very interesting as there is a similar element of Shaolin known as 18 weapons and I'm pretty sure that in Japan there are, or were, some schools that taught 24 techniques, but these also included horsemanship and such things. Which way influences went I don't know, but I suspect the Chinese may be the oldest and the Japanese and Korean of similar date.

It makes sense that similar arts of 18 weapons styles would exist in China. I mentioned that the 18 methods were taken from military training manuals from the early 1700's. These manuals were compiled by Chinese government liasons of Korean extraction, working with both the Korean and Chinese governments to develop effective military training regimens to counter what they saw as a growing Japanese threat in the region.

Also, in the '24 warrior ways' I mentioned, one of the 24 arts is called 'wae gum', which means 'foreign sword'. This particular art, listed in a late 18th century Korean military training manual, was a compilation of training methods and sword techniques taken from then-current Japanese sources. (The '24 warrior ways' also include six techniques on horseback, if I recall correctly.)

All three nations interacted heavily for centuries, through trade and warfare. Korean culture was heavily influenced by China, through the importation of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, metalurgy, and language (Both Japan and Korea used Chinese characters for literature and official correspondence up until the 14th century.) In turn, Proto-Japanese culture derived heavily from Korean influence, including the importation between 400 and 500 AD of Buddhism, swordsmanship, horses/horsemanship, and archery. Refinements in sword manufacture and sword techniques in Japan then filtered back through Korea and into China. Each innovation by one of the three cultures resulted in adaptations in the weaponry and techniques of the other two, as they continued to face each other on the battlefield.

 

[The Old Wolf]

Yes there are Korean sword arts (I teach one), but the history is very muddied. Much was lost durring the Japanese occupation of the last century, and it is the opinion of many that some Koreans just filled in the lost information to sute themselves. I am sorry to say this as I practice a Korean art myself, but there it is.
Having said that let me go a bit further and state that, like many martial arts, there is good and . . . not so good in the "Gumdo" community.
An earlier post mentioned "Shim Gumdo". I have visited the home school/monastery in Boston, Mass. and was impressed with the teacher. I think his is real.
As for "HaiDongGumDo"(registered name in the USA) I think it is NOT and old system. I say this as I practiced it for a number of years and reached third dan. It is an ok art, if a bit flashy for me.
Over all, it is an injustice in my opinion to state flatly that the Koreans got all their sword moves from the Japanese. Thoughout their history they have borrowed from the Chinese, and the Japanese. Just as the Japanese borrowed from the Chinese. What I believe is important is firstly if the techniques and training are effective, and secondly if they are truthful.

 

[Langenschwert]

What I believe is important is firstly if the techniques and training are effective, and secondly if they are truthful.

Absolutely. The origins of many martial arts are lost in the mists of history, and any nation that had a fair amount of warfare likely had effective indigineous fighting techniques. It's just human nature. If they didn't have effective MA, they would likely have been exterminated.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[The Old Wolf]

Very true.

Question to everyone on this list. What style of swordsmanship do you practice.

Myself; MooSaDo

 

[arnisador]

Filipino!

 

[Sukerkin]

Hi OW

Are you the same chap with that username over at MAP? I'm guessing so from your background and general posting 'style' :tup:.

Welcome to MartialTalk, anyhow, and, finally getting around to answering your question {}, I study Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido (but have a not so secret hankering to learn Western sword arts too ).

 

[Ninjamom]

Hello again, Old Wolf,

I practice a mix of daehan-style Kumdo (korean kendo) and haedong kumdo, with a dash of free sparring and guhapdo thrown in.

 

[The Old Wolf]

Yes, I'm on MAP also. Trying to network as best I can. My hope is to connect with other swordsman in the Carolinas. Not those who are only interested in spouting how their style is best because it's ... I don't know, god given. But people who are interested in becoming better swordsmen!

 

[Langenschwert]

Question to everyone on this list. What style of swordsmanship do you practice.

You probably already know, but to satisfy any curiosity of people reading this thread, I study German Longsword and Italian Rapier, and a bit of I.33 Sword & Buckler (which is also German). However, the unarmed parts are an integral part of swordsmanship, so to say that the Kunst des Fechtens is only a sword art would be inaccurate. I am just as interested (but not as skilled) in Ringen (German medieval wrestling) which is the basis of swordsmanship, according to the "Hanko Dobringer" fechtbuch (literally "fight-book"). Often the two are combined into what is called in German "Ringen am Schwert" which means "Wrestling at the Sword". This is what happens when two armed combatants come very close to each other. Usually this ends with a joint lock or throw. For example: http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Mair/49.jpg

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Chizikunbo]

Has anyone ever heard of a Korean Sword Art? If so, do you know the name or any background information on it?

Thanks!

Kuk Sool has some unique sword work, including 4 types I think, Jang Gum (straight sword, the style of technique not the shapr of the sword), Yuk Gum (reverse sword techniques), ssang jang gum (double long swords), ssang dan gum (douple short swords, similar to butterfly knives).

There is also Sim Do Kwan Kum Do that was foundedin Seoul in 1945 by Chang Han Joo, who was a military officer and a physician, who studied in Japan (being he was a doctor and such). His style included elements of Gum Sool, Bong Sool, Yudo, Tang Soo Do, and Hapkido) sparring was all out and came in 3 forms, to the extent of including throws, grappling and vital point striking. It also included Chi Ro Bup (correct healing method) which has forms of chiropractic manipulation, rolfing etc... This kwan is more or less extinct and there are only a few surviving practicioners, some are in the states though.
--Josh

 

[The Old Wolf]

There is a young man teaching Kuk Sool here in Carlotte, NC. I have spoken with him and seen him practice and think well of him.

 

[Chizikunbo]

There is a young man teaching Kuk Sool here in Carlotte, NC. I have spoken with him and seen him practice and think well of him.

I like Kuk Sool I think it is a very nice artform...met some very good practicioners too.

 

[MBuzzy]

Thank you all for your responses! I started this thread a few months ago and have since decided to being studying Haidong Gumdo at Central Ohio Martial Arts in Columbus, OH.

Are there any practitioners of Haidong Gumdo still around on the site?

 

[Ninjamom]

Hey, MBuzzy!! Is that Master Laura Clemens' school? Please tell her I said 'hi'.

If that's the school you've joined, you are in good hands.