Korean Boxing Subak rules according to reputable historians

Discussion in 'Korean Martial Arts - General' started by Steven Lee, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    According to "Chosun Common Sense Q & A", which was Namseon Choi's 1937 newspaper column, "Subak & Subyuk were the same, a fight game which became a drinking game, children's game. The method is fist, grab moving front & back. Hand & fingers bend."

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp0fnPMWwAIfsuM.jpg

    In 1964, the ethnologist Gimu Hong representing North Korean Science Center Anthropology & Ethnology Research Institute published this book, "there was a game called Subak. This knocks down opponent with punches. Subak was liked by warriors in that era."

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnvJGLBWwAAauDM.jpg

    Korean is from Central Asia originally before coming to East Asia, so having boxing is not a surprise. There are also archaeological old Subak pictures representing real life Subak including front-slaps. The following picture is referenced by Chinese Martial Art Encyclopedia page 5 from China (Chinese Martial Art Encyclopedia Editorial Association).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subak#/media/File:Chinese_Shoubo_(Subak),_Qin_Dynasty_archaeological_picture_on_a_comb.jpg

    Both players are slapping front cause both players' striking hands are abruptly bent in the middle of their hands to represent fingers curling. Their striking hands are palms with fingers curling in the middle of hands. Even if one of the players was punching, the picture would still be Subak cause Subak had punch according to reputable historians. That picture is widely recognized by scholars to be Subak, representing a real Subak scene 2000 years ago. The decision on the picture is based on the era of picture (the sports existing in that era), motions visible in the sports, etc. China also has a historical data of slapping the top of someone's head so hard to break skull. + Historians say Subak punched.

    Subak Dance in Manchuria and Taekkyeon also have front-slaps (slapping forehead or chest) and punch. Subak's cousin game Subyuk also has front-slap. (There are historical written description record and photo.) Even if Subak used palm only, Subak players can fight with fists. There are many Korean historical records of fighting with fists in Subak era, including Subak players Gyungseung Du and Euimin Lee punching through wall and punching pillar to shake raft. Also, reputable historians testify that Subak had punch. Subak's name doesn't testify like historians. No matter what Subak's name is, you can't tell whether "clapping" is done front or with fist, or whether there is non-clapping in the game clapping. Subak's name meaning clap proves nothing; historians' testimonies prove rules.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,843
    Likes Received:
    6,409
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Is there a debate about this?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Having read your post in its entirety, and followed your links, you are using historical artifacts and claiming them as evidence to back up your story. Link 3 is to a wikipedia page partly authored by yourself, and at the bottom of the page wikipedia states more evidence is require, link 2 is to a basic website that most people would be able to create in 10 mins, and the 1st link takes us to the pictures I mentioned earlier, in one of the pictures shows a book that appears to be old, or someone has been car less with the coffee, however if you follow the link of nestofpnix.egloos.com/4731416 it takes you to a page that does not mention Subak in the English version, no mention of any martial arts, infact it is an explanation of arguments over a geographical position, also published in 1947, the year north Korea claimed independence in fact I copied the very last sentence on the page, which was part of the last 2 paragraphs in red...
    "However, it is true that some volumes were published in 1947, so the text is slightly modified."
    You really need to think about how you can argue your case effectively and if you are using historical documents you need to produce proper evidence to back up your claims.
    Most people are willing to except change in current historical history, but it needs to be debated properly, and not a repetitive statement that does not start with changes that happened around the foundation of a secular society.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page