Kicking techniques gone out of the window?! Ways of Roundhouse kicking?!

[Corporal Hicks]

Hi,
I was wondering if anybody here had suffered from what it seems I have been! It seems that in the last week my kicking techniques have somewhat dissappeared somewhere!
Recently I've had many different people teach me how kick their own particular way and I've tried each technique but not known how to respond.
I used to do Tae Kwon Do and therefore kicked with the chamber position but within a couple of years of my own training I changed this to encorporate the entire hip twist!
Recently I've started suffering from knee pain on the left side of my left knee (supporting leg) and my kicking techinque has also gone out the window!
Does anybody have any solutions I should try? Not only that what kind of kicking would do the minimal amount of damage to the knees? or hopefully no damage at all?
In regards to roundhouse (turning kicks) how do you execute them?
The way we used to do it, was to bring the leg up into whats called the chamber position, then twist and kick whilst turning the supporting leg to encorporate the hip!
The other way I know of is to kick from the knee, and only turn the supporting leg slightly to support it (this are snappy kicks).
What do you do?
Regards

 

[Jagermeister]

I'd see a doctor about the knee and talk to him/her about it. Everyone is different, so you really need individual evaluation. I have had knee problems in the past, and I have to say it's worth the time to see a professional for this one. He or she will be able to tell you what kind of stress and in what magnitude the knee can or can't take and therefore what kind of kicks you should be able to do. Anti-inflammatories like ibuprofin might help in the mean time. With the roundhouse kick, you should try to pivot on the ball of your foot. That will probably minimize torque on the supporting knee. Go slow until you feel like you are getting back in the groove and you feel like the technique is good again. No use practicing bad habits. Hope this helps.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Yes, I had a sore right knee for week or so once and the only way I could do twisting kicks was to 'elevate' a little as I kicked so that my foot slid easier over the floor and didn't provide so much resistance to the twist, and my knee took a lot less strain as a result. It's mostly driving from the ball of your pivot foot up a bit so that your weight comes off your foot more as you tiwst

 

[TigerWoman]

FF had good advice, elevate up on the ball of the foot. Too much repetition with twisting (over 100) causes me pain from ligaments on that side of the knee and partly from grinding the non-cartilage I have. You can't help but twist when you do a back leg round kick though, even with a snap. With a front leg round kick, I do lift up a little so the ball of the foot and toes face back more after the pivot. Unless the doc is a orthopedist I found that I got little help, just alot of xrays and tests, then was referred to the orthopedist who gave me a brace. Different problem than yours, but he nailed it. But it gets expensive that way. I've gone quite a few times now without much help, other than a brace and exercises. Mostly it is the way you practice as you have already surmised. Strengthen the ligaments and muscles of your knees too. TW

 

[Andrew Green]

Is your supporting foot pivoting properly? Cause my guess is you are twisting the knee from your body rotating and your foot not

 

[jdinca]

Doctor is a good idea. I'm wondering if you've changed something that could be causing the problem? Coming from a person with a knee that sounds like a bowl of Rice Crispies, it doesn't take much. Something as small as an improper foot pivot is enough.

We do two kicks of this type, the roundhouse and the wheel kick. On the roundhouse, the leg chambers as the foot leaves the ground and moves like you have to lift your leg over a small table as you pivot. The leg extends as the body hits the proper position. Waist pivot is crucial.

The wheel kick comes up through the middle, like you're going to do a snap kick and then the hip turns over as you pivot. The leg extends once the body is in position. Again, waist movement is important to develop the speed.

The roundhouse is power but can be cumbersome. The wheel kick is faster and has more "snap" to it. In both kicks, the standing foot is pointed towards the rear and the kick is parallel to the ground.

 

[karatekid1975]

I had the same problem after I hurt my hip. I used to do the "45 degree TKD kick" and I found that it hurt that hip (which is swinging the leg up 45 degrees without use of the hip and not pivoting all the way). So now I do it this way. I pivot my supporting foot so my heel faces the target, champer and turn my hip over at the same time, then release the kick, then rechamber. It doesn't hurt me now. I did it this way in TSD back in the day, and obviously I went back to it. If I don't turn my hip over all the way, it still hurts like ... you know what.

It also depends how you are "built" and how flexible you are too. Flexible people can "cheat." They don't have to turn their hip over as much and still get the height. But over time, this isn't good. Wear and tear comes into play after time.

So my advice would be to get it checked out. Make sure there's no major thing wrong with your knee, then find "your kick." The way that feels comfy for you.

 

[FearlessFreep]

used to do the "45 degree TKD kick"

For what it's worth, while the 45degree kick is used in TKD, that doesn't mean it's *the* TKD version of a roundhouse. My first instructor taught the roundhouse as a kick to drive the knee at the target in the chamber position and then twist the hips over and snap the leg out at a 90 degree angle, coming straight into a vertical target, parrallel to the ground. In this position your hips and shoulders end up perpendicular to the target and you are looking over your shoulder at the target. My current instructor teaches the 45 degree kick, which has your leg foot coming up at a 45 degree angle so you are hitting a vertical target coming into the target at an upward rising angle, and doesn't bring the hips or shuolders around quite as far. The 45 degree kick is a sparring kick because it has less power into the target but can be executed faster and retracted faster, which is important in sport sparrin. The 90 degree kick is harder to retract fast but puts a lot more power into the target.

At least, this is my opinion based on observation of having had two instructers teach slightly different executions of a roundhouse, for different purposes. My previous instructor was big in power in kicks. (Which ironically is why I tend to practice a lot of sidekicks and tend to use them in sport sparring more than most people I've seen...as an aside I took a sparring technique of chambering one leg as a fake and swinging around and kicking with the other leg, except my 'real' kick is often a sidekick instead of the standard roundhouse used in that move. I tried it last week in a sparring class against a higher rank student; it scored and the guy just backed up and said 'what was that?!')

What always confuses me is that I think Muy Thai also has a roundhouse but that is a kick that I think starts more in the hips and is basically a swing of the shin into the target. However it's not a kick I practice so I don't know the mechanics of it. I wish there was a standard way of referring to moves that crossed over arts : )

Sorry, didn't mean to go off topic. Just kinda thinking out loud and I've been thinking of the '45 degree roundhouse' versus '90 degree roundhouse' a lot recently...

 

[MJS]

Hi,
I was wondering if anybody here had suffered from what it seems I have been! It seems that in the last week my kicking techniques have somewhat dissappeared somewhere!
Recently I've had many different people teach me how kick their own particular way and I've tried each technique but not known how to respond.
I used to do Tae Kwon Do and therefore kicked with the chamber position but within a couple of years of my own training I changed this to encorporate the entire hip twist!
Recently I've started suffering from knee pain on the left side of my left knee (supporting leg) and my kicking techinque has also gone out the window!
Does anybody have any solutions I should try? Not only that what kind of kicking would do the minimal amount of damage to the knees? or hopefully no damage at all?
In regards to roundhouse (turning kicks) how do you execute them?
The way we used to do it, was to bring the leg up into whats called the chamber position, then twist and kick whilst turning the supporting leg to encorporate the hip!
The other way I know of is to kick from the knee, and only turn the supporting leg slightly to support it (this are snappy kicks).
What do you do?
Regards

Yes, the foot has to turn. Not only is this where the power is going to come from but if you don't pivot, the risk of injury to the knee is great.

Mike

 

[jdinca]

I had the same problem after I hurt my hip. I used to do the "45 degree TKD kick" and I found that it hurt that hip (which is swinging the leg up 45 degrees without use of the hip and not pivoting all the way). So now I do it this way. I pivot my supporting foot so my heel faces the target, champer and turn my hip over at the same time, then release the kick, then rechamber. It doesn't hurt me now. I did it this way in TSD back in the day, and obviously I went back to it. If I don't turn my hip over all the way, it still hurts like ... you know what.

It also depends how you are "built" and how flexible you are too. Flexible people can "cheat." They don't have to turn their hip over as much and still get the height. But over time, this isn't good. Wear and tear comes into play after time.

So my advice would be to get it checked out. Make sure there's no major thing wrong with your knee, then find "your kick." The way that feels comfy for you.

Just reading that made my hip ache. Another thing that will tear the hip up is executing the wheel kick while the hip is still turning over. All that torque in your femur transfers right up to your hip.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Just reading that made my hip ache. Another thing that will tear the hip up is executing the wheel kick while the hip is still turning over. All that torque in your femur transfers right up to your hip.

Ah what exactly do you mean by that? When do you execute the kick here then?!


Thanks for the replies people, you've explained the kicks I meant much better than I. It seemed strange that I was turning my foot as well and the knee pain was still there. I've decided not to use the *TKD 45 degree* kick as it was put as this essentially is a kick with the knee (being fast and snappy) and it makes my kicking knee crack!
Thanks for the replies!
Regards

 

[karatekid1975]

Just reading that made my hip ache. Another thing that will tear the hip up is executing the wheel kick while the hip is still turning over. All that torque in your femur transfers right up to your hip.

Ouch. Yes, I totally agree. I try to avoid the wheel kick if my hip is bugging me.

 

[bobster_ice]

Old people and joint problems, coincedence?

 

[Gemini]

Old people and joint problems, coincedence?

Age doesn't matter. Young people can and do develop the same problems if they try to override their body mechanics in the name of performing a "perfect" kick. Yes, there are certain aspects to a kick that are required to make it "that" kick, but we all have our own motion. One of the worst things you can do is try to impersonate someone elses motion.

 

[jdinca]

Ah what exactly do you mean by that? When do you execute the kick here then?!

Sorry, needed to add more detail. I was talking about not turning your hip over all the way and not pivoting all the way. Running it through a "mental workout", it felt painful. I did a couple slow motion today and I didn't like the way it made my hip feel.

Pivot the foot and the waist as you bring the leg up into the chambered position. The leg extends and strikes the target just as you're just finishing the pivot.

 

[bluemtn]

This is a bit of a slower way to kick, but it's good if your doing them in warm ups: try turning your supporting foot first, then chamber and complete the rest- that way you don't have as much weight/ distance on the knee as you twist the leg around. This has worked for me, since having a twisted knee. Also, going up on the ball of the foot works, too.

 

[jdinca]

This is a bit of a slower way to kick, but it's good if your doing them in warm ups: try turning your supporting foot first, then chamber and complete the rest- that way you don't have as much weight/ distance on the knee as you twist the leg around. This has worked for me, since having a twisted knee. Also, going up on the ball of the foot works, too.

This is also a good way to teach new students how to pivot. It allows them to get the foot farther around. And, as you said, it's a good way to deal with a temporary injury.

I may end up getting flamed but coming up on the ball of the foot while executing a kick decreases stability and can take power out of the kick, as well as affect balance.

 

[Gemini]

I may end up getting flamed but coming up on the ball of the foot while executing a kick decreases stability and can take power out of the kick, as well as affect balance.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends how high you raise up. All kicks require spinning on the ball of your foot, but your heel should be only off the ground enough to allow the rotation. If you go to maximum height, I agree, and it also then exposes your ankle to injury. I know because it was one of my worst habits coming up. Another common mistake is locking your knee during the pivot. It should always be ever so slightly bent.

 

[jdinca]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends how high you raise up. All kicks require spinning on the ball of your foot, but your heel should be only off the ground enough to allow the rotation. If you go to maximum height, I agree, and it also then exposes your ankle to injury. I know because it was one of my worst habits coming up. Another common mistake is locking your knee during the pivot. It should always be ever so slightly bent.

Agreed.

 

[bluemtn]

This is also a good way to teach new students how to pivot. It allows them to get the foot farther around. And, as you said, it's a good way to deal with a temporary injury.

I may end up getting flamed but coming up on the ball of the foot while executing a kick decreases stability and can take power out of the kick, as well as affect balance.

No need to get flamed about it, especially when you give good support to your point. I agree that you shouldn't lift the foot very far, nor for very long- just enough to get at the right angle.