Kicking Drills w/Heavy Bag

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Uncle Max, Dec 5, 2017 at 5:15 PM.

  1. Uncle Max

    Uncle Max White Belt

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    Hey All.. I was wondering what everybody's preferred routine is when it comes to kicking the heavy bag. I mean, aside from when I'm practicing my patterns/drills, I really don't have a specific routine. I just bang away. Curious if you guys and gals have a specific number of reps/sets per (type of) kick? I just started doing a couple hundred a day (300-500 depending upon other gym-work), but have no idea where that stacks up, or where I should be. I'm in the gym 4-5 days a week. Thank-you for the insight!
    Uncle Max
     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    I do whatever i feel like on the day. In my mind anythings better than nothing
     
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  3. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    i cant help thinking that 500 kicks aday is top side of what you need,?

    ask yourself what you are trying to achieve and then design a program round that, at the moment its fair to say you are building impressive leg endurance, if you are doing much else is debatable.?

    if your training techniques, then kick till your techneque breaks down, you want to in grain good techneque , doing another 100 kicks with poor techniques, isn't doing that.

    if you want to develop power, then with good techneque, deliver a small number of kicks at max power, i say small, you need to stay well away from both failure in techneque and a significant drop off in power. As soon as either diminishes stop that set.

    if you want endurance, then with good techneque and reasonable power keep banging away, till one or the other fails you
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 11:30 AM
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  4. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Hi, Max, long time no hear.
    There's so many ways to use a bag for kicking I'm not sure where to start. But let me ask you, are there any instructors or trainers in your gym? They should be able to help you quite a bit, no?
     
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  5. EddieCyrax

    EddieCyrax Blue Belt

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    Like said above...what is your goal in this process..... After having hip surgery a few years ago, I do not practice high reps..... I focus on technique, form, application, and power generation. I do not need high rep counts to achieve this. I incorporate other techniques and workouts to maintain endurance/strength.

    Would need to better understand your goals to say whether this is too high or low.
     
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  6. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Regardless of if it’s kicking or punching or both, you should have a plan going in. Just throwing anything and everything as hard as you can for as long as you can isn’t very smart nor efficient. That’s not to say a “burn out” round or two isn’t good, but you know what I mean.

    Jobo made a great point - listen to your body. Keep proper technique. Also as he he said, define what you’re looking to gain and work towards that.

    When I focus on kicking, I do a bunch of things. I never counted a total though...
    Fighting stance, and I’m pretty much taking a small step/shuffle on every kick.
    All kicks done with front leg x 20, then rear leg x 20...
    Front kick
    Roundhouse
    Side kick
    Hook kick
    Inside-out crescent kick
    Outside-in crescent kick

    After that, I’ll switch to opposite foot forward and repeat. I sometimes throw in an additional kick, replace a kick, or add/replace a kick with a combo like front kick then on the same leg roundhouse without touching down. Depends on my mood.

    When I’m doing that many kicks, it’ll be a balance of speed and power, but mechanics come first. Sometimes I’ll do 10 of each kick instead, but I’ll focus far more on speed or power. Depends on my mood.

    Regardless of how many and what I’m doing, I keep a good pace. I try to get my heart rate up and keep it up. Not all out heart rate, but pushing myself pretty good.

    After all the kicks, I’ll do some kick-punch combos. Something like front kick-straight left-right hook. Sometimes I’ll go slow and pay attention to where my feet are landing, where my hands are, my angle of entry and exit, etc. Sometimes I’ll just go fast. Sometimes I’ll go hard.

    On punching focus days, I’ll do something similar, only moving in jab x 20, jab-cross x 20, jab-cross-hook x 20, etc. Just like kicks, some days I’ll go slow and pay attention to my movement and mechanics, so days I’ll go at a cardio pace, some days I’ll go all out power.

    Then other days, I’ll simply do rounds. 12 x 2 minutes, 1 minute rest between rounds. I’ll constantly do combos, moving in and out. I’ll have a fight in my head :)

    The biggest things are change it up, alternate heavy/difficult days with lighter/more technical days, and get adequate rest. Stretching before and after too. And I really like the foam roller for my upper back after I’m done. The hot tub was great when I had access to one afterwards to recover.

    To take it up another level, I wear a Fitbit and track my heart rate. I’ll work harder when need be, and back off a little when appropriate.

    Sorry for the long manual here. I did this about 4 x a week when I was getting ready for a tournament. It helped A LOT. While it seems like all that would take forever, from warmup to cool down it would take about 50 minutes total.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    500 kicks is not an especially long time on the bag. 10 minutes mabye.

    And just do them all with good technique. power will drop off a bit. But so what.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    because if you want to train powerful movement then low reps powerful movements are what you should be doing, otherwise you are back to training endurance which won't increase the power of your kick, just your endurance
     
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  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not really. I think high repetitions in regards to aquiring a skill is pretty consistant. On the bag you are training endurance.

    Train leg strength at a different time.
     
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  10. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    your not train leg strengh, your training kicking power, that can only really be done by kicking powerfully .

    i made. A distinction above about different application for power techneque and endurance
     
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  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You are training multiple things in succession. Because kicking power is a combination of leg strength, technique, endurance and mental dicipline.

    And the point of the bag is to combine those elements.

    And you should be able to do 10minutes of hard kicking with good technique. Even broken up if you have to.

    The hard work factor is still a big component in gaining martial arts skill.
     
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  12. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    I try and do about 300-800 kicks a day on the heavy bag depending on how I feel. Usually 50 a side for each kick for a total of:

    -100 low round kicks
    -100 front leg front kicks
    -100 back leg front kicks
    -100 side kicks
    -100 spinning back kicks
    -100 high round kicks

    Then I pick 3 combinations for example:

    Jab, cross, hook, low round kick

    Backfist, sidekick, high round kick

    Front kick with the front leg, step forward jab, cross, jab, elbow

    I'll do 3 combinations like that for about 50 reps each combo, and then work on other things.
     
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  13. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Personally, I do two things. The first is train each kick separately. So I'll only do side kicks for a minute. Then front kicks for a minute. Then roundhouse for a minute, back kick for a minute, etc. Sometimes only one leg, sometimes both (rear and front, I generally won't switch stance until the minutes up).

    After I do that, I do combinations. Those won't be only kicks; I almost always use kicks to lead into punches, but that's how I spar. My goal is to get in close; if you want to stay in kicking range just practice the kicks. In the combinations, I'll generally choose 3 for the combination. For instance, in south paw stance, Right front kick-->Jab-->left hook.

    I do things timed because if I count, I lose track. If counting works for you, do that instead. either way, consistency, repetition, and focusing on form is the key. Also constantly moving around the bag, rather than staying still, helps focus on the footwork aspect.
     
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  14. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    well not really, at least not very well or as well as you could do with period training, what your suggesting is much the same as saying running five miles helps you 100 m time. It may do a bit for a while,

    people who do body weight training and that's what kicking is, get obsessed with reps, just as people who lift bar bells get obsessed with weight, it how they measure progress.

    but if you want to increase power with body weight, then you need to operate as a bar bell litter would to increase strengh.

    that near max out put, for a low number of reps, let's say 10 a short rest to let the higher level motor units recover and then another dose of max out put and another rest. You are not going to reach 500 reps like that, maybe 50 before the fast twitch fibres have hacked it in for the day., your way the higher level units have only had a 10 rep work out before you went on to wear out the endurance firbres
    I'm not saying that on another day, you shouldn't do your 500, just that low effort high reps builds endurance or not max power
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 8:43 AM
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  15. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    When I opened my last full time dojo, the first thing I did was buy bags. Fifteen Tuffwear bags. When another dojo opened in town, or in a boarding town, I'd buy them a seventy pound bag and two kicking shields as a house warming gift. That's how much I like heavy bags. Back then, I didn't see a lot of bags in dojos, maybe one or two bags at the most. Now, they're all over the place. Especially those banana bag jobs. And I think it's absolutely wonderful.

    Bag work is a good thing.
     
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  16. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    And here I was waiting for you to say you’d buy them bags as a housewarming gift, and fill them up with bricks or doo-doo or something along those lines :)
     
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  17. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Nah, it was all good, the more dojos around the better. What we did wasn't for everybody, so if I knew a school nearby that would be more benificial for a student, or more enjoyable, I'd have a resource to give him.

    As long as it wasn't a Fred Villari school.
     
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  18. Anarax

    Anarax Blue Belt

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    Have you seen improvements in your kicks? Are you kicking everyday? Everyone is different as far as number of kicks. Regardless of number, you should be challenging yourself and approach it with a plan. Track your progress and alternate training methods very month and see what yields the best results for you
     
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  19. Uncle Max

    Uncle Max White Belt

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    Thank-you everbody for your input! Health issues had me side-lined for the last coupla years. I was down to 120 lbs, and am past "middle age" (pushin' 60). Was finally able to get back in the gym last Spring, and joined a dojang at the same time. I threw myself into both head first. Was crankin' hard 5-6 days a week for 5 months, then got sidelined again for 2 months. I'm back in the gym and/or home gym every day, and will be back in my classes (four days a week) soon.
    Right now, I'm focusing on technique and endurance- actually, I'm hyper-focused on technique AND getting xxx # of reps in per kick. And yeah, if it's falling apart then I either slow waaay down and and focus on where it's breaking down, or I move on to another type of kick and finish the troublesome one at the end of my drills.
    Thank-you again All for chiming-in. I'm going to borrow a little (or a lot!) from everyone.
     
  20. Uncle Max

    Uncle Max White Belt

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    Apologies, DanT! I like your routine, and thought I had included it in my previous post.
     
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