1. pete

    pete Master Black Belt

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    doc, great response! your so called "ramblings" are more succinct than many others' well written articles... lots of information for me to put into practice.

    so true, i wasn't even considering this first "circle" in my example... but now that you have, it's got me thinking! is this big circle made of several smaller ones? the internal circle in your center to turn you around to face the attacker, causing outward sprirals through hips and shoulders, elbows and knees, ankles and wrists to allow that big circle to "work" in such a way that you remain well centered and structurally sound...

    for example, as the "trap" is set, the left hand come into the attackers eyes. if your two hands continued turning in circles (right clockwise and left counterclock), such that the 2 palms are always facing eachother, would you have stronger structure? now to continue in "circling wing", after a rising elbow to the jaw, we rotate back into a reverse stance and hammer the groin, and again the hands are rotating, but now in the opposite directions (right counterclock and left clockwise).

    should these smaller circles be found in all/most big circles, and do they in fact help maintain a stronger physical structure?

    in my limited experience, it seems that serious students tend to realize this along their way in kenpo and find different ways of addressing it. those that haven't tend to struggle more with "new" material and in improving their overall technique.

    you are doing a great service to the kenpo community by pointing this out for students such as myself.

    thank you...
    pete.
     
  2. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    Yes sir it is. The nature of human anatomy does not actually allow significant movement of an appendage without multiple articulations. There is also a tendency to forget that even the hand has multiple points of articulation with at least three joints on each finger. Even more significant is the fingers and wrist have a significant impact on the entire body’s state of structural integrity and state of nerve cavities over the ENTIRE BODY.

    Although I would express it differently, you are essentially correct in my opinion.
    I do not teach attacking the eyes.
    Actually, no you would not. The right hand executes a spiraling articulation at the wrist as it moves up, over, around, and down. It moves first in one direction, than the other. The movement and direction are dictated by the position of the hand relative to the position of the arm to the position of the body. As an example, assuming you have done other mechanisms not discussed here correctly, when your elbow drops below your shoulder joint, your baby finger edge must face toward your attacker. If you do not, your entire body will be misaligned and you will be incapable of maintaining a structurally sound stance, nor will your “ pin” have maximum effect. The position of the left hand is another story.
    I do not teach it that way, nor do we strike the groin.
    If I were to do it this way (and I definitely do not), I would suggest that the right hand does not rotate at all. If the upward elbow is thrown correctly with the palm of the hand facing your head, than the shift into a correct reverse bow rotates the hip, shoulders, and therefore the arm so that the arm literally reverses it self in any strike downward and ultimately now backwards.
    Yes, think about it. From your shoulder to the tip of your middle finger, you have six articulate joints. Move one finger incorrectly relative to the action, and, you completely destroy your platform stability. Structural Integrity is a fleeting thing due to the body’s ability to move in and out of connectivity in all of its many connecting points and tissue.
    Unfortunately sir, this information is not “discoverable” on a large scale. You must be taught by a very knowledgeable source. Consider among my students, I have several Medical Doctors, a plethora of Chiropractors, two physical therapists, two grad students in Kinesiology, and one licensed acupuncturist. (and a partrich in a pear tree :)) None of them despite their education and training can figure out "how" it works. It is elusive knowledge that crosses the boundaries of multiple sciences. You can't find it in any book or video. You must be taught by someone who knows and understands. It is rare.
    That is because most have no significant foundational material of proper basics to build on, no matter what they do later. The information is not generally available.

    To illustrate my point:

    Execute an upward elbow with your palm facing your shoulder. Have someone pull down on your elbow. It will collapse easily and will not “feel good.” Execute same, same way, as you stand in your neutral bow. Have someone push you on the 12/6 line while your arm is in that position. Once again, you will be unable to resist due to a complete lack of Structural Integrity.

    Now execute with your hand palm flat against the side of your head. No matter how strong the person is they will be unable to pull your arm down. Some might see this as the hand “bracing” against the head, but it is much more subtle than that.

    Continuing:

    Execute the elbow “correctly” with the palm facing the side of the head but DO NOT TOUCH YOUR HEAD. You will find the Structural Integrity you had before is now significantly diminished. Now extend your middle finger, and simply “touch” your head LIGHTLY. You will find the Structural Integrity has now returned.

    “There is no single part of your body, no matter how small, that you can move that does not have a profound impact on your entire body.” – Ron Chapél
    Well sir, that depends on who you talk to. :) I could name a few who would definitely disagree with you.

    A couple of things. Anyone who performs the experiments I would like them to post their experiences for others to discuss and query. and--

    While I have the opportunity, there was another post by Dr. Dave, (I don't know where it is at the moment) where he repeated something I had said about "most being unable to pass my yellow belt test." After visiting me and experiencing some of the curriculum, he agreed with my statement. I give him credit for at least coming to see me before casting judgement. He himself is VERY well educated and knowledgeable as his title suggests.

    However the point of my the statement, and his repeat of same, was not expressing an "I'm better than you." sentiment. The point was, someone could actually be doing Ed Parker's Kenpo, with a significant difference in the depth of understanding of the same information, that would be such that not having been taught that way, a person would be unable to execute with the same the in-depth mechanisms inherent in the curriculum. There is much for all of us to learn. Better or worse is an individual decision relative to what you favor. It is not meant by me or Dr. Crouch (who is not my student by the way - yet) in a negative way.

    Thanks Mr. Landini
     
  3. Bigsarg

    Bigsarg White Belt

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    What do u mean by resemble an alligator?

    I am a second degree black under Michael Rainy (1993) I hold belts in Tiekedo,judo and Taekwondo.
    Try doing the techniques and keep your circles inside your outer rim. I realized that changing the direction in ur circles sometimes can also help. Remember that as long as you keep the sequence,target and weapons correct. The technique is correct. U can fill dead space and change stances if u want. These things do not change the technique. This practice ( keeping circles within outer rim) keeps the unending flow of motion for both offense and defense towards an opponent. Remember also:
    you can not always find a way to do this, or can you? Practice will be your answer
     
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  4. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    This is a 13 year old post you are replying to, you probably aren't going to get a response. And besides that dude is probably another Kenpo 10th degree and knows everything about kenpo now.
     
  5. Bigsarg

    Bigsarg White Belt

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    Ya. Didn't look at the date. Just found this website and did a search. 13 yrs. wow how time flys. Where was I 13 yrs ago. Took me a minute to remember. Thanks for pointing the date out
     
  6. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Still, I personally think thread necromancy is fine. Just realize that the people who were originally engaging may not be here anymore so responding to specifics might not get any direct response.

    But that does not mean the discussion cannot be picked up again.
     
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  7. KenpoMaster805

    KenpoMaster805 Green Belt

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    Let me tell yall people who doesnt know what Kenpo is Kenpo karate is an updated system based on modern day Street Fighting it applies Logic and Practicality its also a thinking art not only that

    The technique of Kenpo Can change anytime depending upon circumstances Kenpo is MA too it used to be Chinese Kenpo karate then Ed Parker Change it to American Kenpo and Kenpo is the only Martial Art that has check and the slapping motion when you do the technique its not only street its a real thing

    I learn all this from my Sifu GM Jesus Flores of Flores Bros Kenpo karate

    Like kung FU they have their on way of doing Martial
     
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  8. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    Splash Hands is older than dirt, dude. o_O
     
  9. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Lots of systems do checks and the "slapping motions", it certainly isn't just AK.
     
  10. Bigsarg

    Bigsarg White Belt

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    The slapping motion is called rebounding checks. It let's ur body ricochet the hand to the place you want it. This is micro seconds slower than stopping your hand at the same place. However, for the next move you must relax to strike again. So the micro is more than made up in the speed of the next move. It also keeps motion fluid in your outer rim which is also a check in itself.
    When I went to Korea I trained with a master in taekwondo. One of the first things he asked me when I introduced myself and told him my pedigree. "Ahh. American kenpo, why you beat yourself up?" This was said with the harshest of accents too. I never could get him to grasp the concept. His style was pure traditional. Hard and strong on every move. Speed was not a motivator. Only classical traditional form was excepted. It was a great learning experience.
    he also said. "And kenpo masters, why they beat themselves up even mooore?" I was funny as an American to hear him chastise something he didn't understand. But it's was true. The longer u train the more u utilize this technique. I didn't realize that until he made that observation. Even a negative statement can bring one enlightenment.
     

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