Kenpo Karambit Association

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - General' started by kenpohands, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    Hello,
    I am proud to announce the formation of the Kenpo Karambit Association. The co-founders are myself and Steve Tarani. The concept behind the KKA is the ancient blade of Karambit meets the modern day concepts and principles of Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate.
    I have merged my 30 years experience with Tarani's karambit applications and have developed a system that ANY kenpoist can addapt to. No major modifications needed to manuver the Karambit around within the Kenpo System. I will be forming classes in Glendora open to all Kenpoist all ranks.
    Visit www.kenpokarambit.com for more information.
    If you are interested in joining a class or the KKA contact me at kenpohands@excite.com
    Salute
    Angelo Collado
     
  2. tarabos

    tarabos 2nd Black Belt

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    cool...very cool. i must admit i'm pretty intrigued. i'll have to read about your org on your site and get a little more information from it.

    any specifics of you organization that you'd like to post here? who/what was the inspiratioin behind all of it (besides the kerambit of course)? i'm interested in how this all came to be.

    forgive me if all of that info is on your website but i haven't had a chance to read, just got home from a wedding rehearsal dinner and i'm a bit exhausted...
     
  3. True2Kenpo

    True2Kenpo Purple Belt

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    Fellow Kenpoists,

    I just wanted to mention that the Karambit material seems very, very interesting and from the little bit I talked to Mr. Collado last weekend about it... it is an awesome development!

    I hope everyone takes some time to check it out! I know I will be. Good journey to all.

    Respectfully,
    Joshua Ryer
    UPK Pittsburgh
     
  4. Stick Dummy

    Stick Dummy Guest

    Hey Josh!!

    Congrats for the big wins in Boston!!!! Awesome!

    Karambits will definately add some "new spin" to any form of Kenpo - techs or otherwise. Just make sure you hold on tight and don't throw them at spectators. :rofl:

    I showed GD-7 & Farnsworth my leetle bitty custom Filipino style (spur blade) karambit and it looked like a folding nail trimmer in his paw err, hand.


    You coming down for the next seminar at Shepherd?? Maybe we can hide in a corner of the gym, and compare Karambit techs.
     
  5. True2Kenpo

    True2Kenpo Purple Belt

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    Stick Dummy,

    Thank you for the kind words! It was definitely a great weekend! :)

    As for my Karambit techniques, I really just spoke with Mr. Collado about his Association and how the material related to the Kenpo System, so my knowledge of Karambit techniques are non-existant, but I hope to change that with time :)

    Anyway, I do hope to make the next seminar in W.V., look forward to seeing you there.

    Hope all is well and good journey!

    Respectfully,
    Joshua Ryer
    UPK Pittsburgh
    IKKA
     
  6. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    Accidents do happen, I have seen many in my time. So it if it is all in play thats fine and dandy. I can joke about things just as well as the other guy, BUT! If you are serious and would like to see the karambit and what it can do FIRST HAND! I will love to show you the REAL applications, not a form. I sure you will change your tune a bit. Just my thoughts!!
    Sorry Josh, Some folks just don't get it!
    Angelo Collado
     
  7. Seig

    Seig Grandmaster

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    First of all, the threat, which seems real and not implied, is against Martial Talk policy. Please do not do it again.
     
  8. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    If you precieved this as a threat you are wrong. I only want to inform you on the PROPER use of the karambit. Throwing them at spectators is not a use. It was an accident and thats all. Its not to be joked about. If you took this as a threat I am truely sorry. One who feels threatened by the defense of one owns art is not well educated in the arts to even mess with. I mearly offered to share my knowledge with you, but you perceive it as a threat!! Thats your loss.
    AC
     
  9. Seig

    Seig Grandmaster

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    Yes, I perceived it as a threat. You state I was and am wrong. I can accept that. I appreciate that you want to share your experiences with the karambit, and maybe someday, we will get an opportunity to compare notes on what you are learning/teaching versus what Stick Dummy has been learning/teaching. I saw the accident, I was there. It was unfortunate, but fortunately, no one was seriously injured. Had someone been injured, I can assure you, no joke would have been made. I did not perceive a threat to myself, I perceived a threat made to another board member. In the past, that has been a serious issue here. Apparently, he and I were the only ones to perceive such, so the issue is now a dead horse :deadhorse:.
    I'm sorry, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make here.
    I look forward to clearer and calmer communications between us in the future.
    Good Journey.
     
  10. Goldendragon7

    Goldendragon7 Grandmaster

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    Come on Angelo.......

    Yes, in fact they do (I have witnessed several myself and even disqualified some for lack of control)..... which is why you have an extreme responsibility to keep your weapon under control. Also, live blades should not be used (so the rules state) in the event that an "accident" does in fact happen so that no one either the competitor or other people get injured.

    I believe you are a bit touchy about this Angelo... that surprises me..... if you noticed there was a little smiley there .... which usually means a joke.

    However.........

    Hmmmmmmmmm seems like much more than your thoughts. I think "YOU" are taking this a little too personal. Not characteristic of you. Geeze you imply that you want to show REAL applications not form..... a threat? You want to show him how "Deadly You" are with this thing? A bit arrogant I think, do you know anything about Stick Dummy and just what HE knows or can do with this thing? Either way, this is probably just another case of one person mis-understanding the meaning of a post due to the lack of emotion and feeling that forums do not have. Personally, knowing both of you, I think you both would enjoy each other in a professional exchange of martial arts knowledge, skill, and enjoyment with a common goal in mind. Let's not let a small thing like this get out of hand with 2 skilled and respected Black Belts such as yourselves.

    Was that really necessary...... This is what I was talking about. Fuel on the fire rather than finding out first hand either thru email or calling the person and determining exactly what the problem is or was.

    come on guys.... shake hands
    :cheers:

    :asian:
     
  11. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    I admit it this was a bit out of character for me. You are correct and I stand up and apologize for my reply to "Stick Dummy" I guess I had heard one too many jokes about my mishap for the day and my emotions got the best of me. I NEVER meant it as a threat. There are so many folks out there who don't believe in the applications of a karambit until they experience it first hand. No threat intended. For all I know Stick Dummy may be able to teach me a few things. All in all it was blown out of proportion.

    As far as being arrogant you know I am not, it's more like confident in my skills. As you know I am not an arrogant Blackbelt. But I was raised the old school way---on the mat! If you got something to say, say it on the mat is what I was taught. You remember the old Pasadena Days, you were there! Too many talk the talk these days and can't walk the walk. More stripes and more definitions is all they can show us. You know me Mr. Conatser. I am a serious student and teacher. I am not hard to get along with. I never attack people verbally on any forums. I was just a little sensitive on this one!

    It was great seeing you in Boston. I was glad to see you sitting there on the panel for the Kenpo Forms Division. I was looking for you later and you were gone. Keep in touch Sir and thanks for keeping us crazy "hotheads" in check.
    Respectfully
    Angelo Collado
     
  12. Stick Dummy

    Stick Dummy Guest

    Geezey Peezey did I start at Sh$%^Storm.......


    Sorry folks, I didn't mean any slams on abilities, I've BTDT with weapons, FORTUNATELY I have not yet hurt myself or another during a tourney, ergo the "web handle".

    One of the schools were I train at has an exclusive branch called "Club ER" of which I am a charter member, and will leave to up your imagination as far as how you get a pretty tee-shirt

    I've seen a few live blade tourney accidents, kamas, swords, balisongs, etc. etc. and none were pretty. The arterial spray patterns on a nice white Gi are quite intreguiging though.

    As far as belts and rank, I don't wear stripes, and have to be forced at gunpoint, or under EXTREME physical duress to put on anything above plain old white...........

    Angelo- I'm sure if you ever get out to this area, or me to LA after some floor fun, exchange of knowledge, and a good Kenpo style feed things would be pretty well ironed out. :asian:

    ofta work again
     
  13. Goldendragon7

    Goldendragon7 Grandmaster

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    LOL, as I expected....... a huge misunderstanding. I know both of you will have a blast working out together with this little toy thingy........ the Karambit.

    Stick Dummy has been studying several years with the Instructor that also taught Danny Inosanto this little joy. So he is quite versed with its usage and unique applications.

    I don't know enough about this "Raptor Claw" to say whether I like it or not yet ........ but it sure looks cool and If I had one in my hands I'm sure there would be a lot of blood around....... the opponents and possibly even mine....... :rofl:

    Thanks for your return response and continual good attitude.

    :asian:

    ps. thank you for the kind words about being in Boston. It was fun watching you guys (as usual) there was some good talent there, unlike the last time you and I sat on a panel in Long Beach!

    Keep working hard and spread the Kenpo Germ........
     
  14. Bill Lear

    Bill Lear Brown Belt

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    Angelo's throwing Karambits at people? Say it ain't so brother... :anic:
     
  15. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    Where the hell you been hiding Billy? Hell I show you a few cool inserts and you you drop off the face of the earth. I see how it is. Keep in touch brother!
    P.s. What is the significance of the Image on your post????
     
  16. ikenpo

    ikenpo Black Belt

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    Mr. Collado,

    I noticed this quote from your website and was wondering if you followed the WOK in the development of the curriculum or was it a mix of Indonesian applications with Kenpo applications? Were any of Mr. Tarani's combatives applications worked into the curriclum? How is it structured? How many techniques exist? Do they act as an add on to a "base system" or stand on their own as a true system? If the Kerambit is removed do you still apply the techiques in the same way (with the Kerambit influence) or revert to standard EPAK?

    What do you see as the main differences in regards to say your views (or mentality) towards Kenpo Knife vs Kenpo Kerambit?

    Just curious,



    jb :asian:
     
  17. Bill Lear

    Bill Lear Brown Belt

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    I've been working things out with my wife and moving her back in... I haven't forgotten those inserts... I actually used them in the technique line at the Homecoming Camp and at the studio the other night. You tell me which image and I will explain. ;)

    Oh yeah... why weren't you at the Homecoming?

    :asian:
     
  18. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    First off, the karambit is not a new weapon. It has been around for hundreds of years. Second, Kenpo karambit is NOT a stand-alone system. It piggybacks on both EPAK and Pekiti Tirsia. The kenpoist can easily adapt to the Kenpo Karambit. Kenpo Karambit was designed to incorporate the techniques, concepts and principles of EPAK and utilize the movement patterns within the techniques. All this done in combination with the applications on Steve Tarani’s Karambit experience and expertise. All the attacks used within our technique structure have been chanced to weapon attacks instead of empty hand attacks. For example,Five swords in now against a slashing knife attack as opposed to a right hook punch. We have incorporated many of Tarani’s tactical and combative techniques taught to Military, Law Enforcement and Special government agencies. Most techniques now incorporate disarms. The outcome is a kenpo technique executed with Karambit weapons application againdts armed attacks. The smoothness and rhythm of the Kenpo techniques are not slowed down nor is the timing much different. You can apply all the techniques both with a karambit or emty hand as you originally learned them. ANY kenpoist can pick up Kenpo Karambit and within one 3 hour seminar be funtional and proficient with the Karambit. Once the basic operation and application of the karambit is learned the possibilities are endless.
    Our curriculum is as follows:

    LEVEL I
    History
    Basics
    -stances
    -positions
    -grips
    -terminology
    -principles of knife fighting
    JURU #1 (KATA)

    LEVEL II
    Drills
    Basic application of the weapon
    Techniques 1-10 (parallel EPAK yellow-orange)
    JURU #2

    COLOR=red]LEVEL III[/COLOR]
    Intermediate applications
    Techniques 10-20 (Purple –Blue)
    JURU #3


    [LEVEL IV
    Advanced applications/takedowns/locks
    Techniques 20-30(Green –Brown)
    Begin PICHAHAN(EPAK Phase III)
    JURU #4

    LEVEL V INSTRUCTORSHIP
    Free Form
    Combat
    PICHAHAN
    JURU #5

    If anyone is interested in a seminar to introduce the Kenpo Karambit to your school curriculum and become part of our training group.
    Contact me at
    kenpohands@excite.com
     
  19. ikenpo

    ikenpo Black Belt

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    Right, I've trained with the Kerambit before..There are actually other Kenpo practicioners that have explored aspects of this weapon in years past with other Kuntao/Silat instructors and already have it incorporated into their curriculum.


    Now that was my question. So without the weapon you're back to standard EPAK or Pekiti Tirsia. It is a prefix/suffix, sour cream on the potato sort of thing, but not the potato. (everybody know potatos taste better with sour cream)

    Is this for moral reasons? I noticed Tarani also uses the trainer as a restraining/contact control tool. Is that level IV takedowns & locks?

    Did you find that difficult to do while maintaining our principles of logic? I notice you went with the Jura title for your forms. Are they basically made up of the techniques within that level?

    Agreed, what would you consider to be your greatest personal insight gained from training with this weapon?

    Thank you for the insight. It is interested to see how someone else has incorporated the concepts. Realizing that if caught using an actual Kerambit in California or Texas that you'd be thrown under the jail (double edged blade), do you give any consideration to training with hard plastic trainers like Worden's Impact Kerambit?

    Regards and again thanks for the insight, jb :asian:
     
  20. kenpohands

    kenpohands Guest

    Not exactly! The Karambit training will stand alone against emty hand and weapon attacks. It is a potato in it own right, The kenpo Karambit is the use of the Karambit within the kenpo system. Thus a Potato(kenpo) plus sour cream(karambit)! Its all how you look at it!

    No moral issues here. It can also be used against emty hand attacks as well. (trainers)
    Thats all in the Tarani karambit system. I too train that way as well, My students also learn the karambit as a control device. That IS not part of the Kenpo Karambit. It is Tarani's Karambit training which we do as well.


    Why? We don't carry double edged karambits. The folders are all single edged karambits and are as legal as a common folder! Nothing illegal about it. THe trainers work well in the Kenpo Karambit applications and are 100% legal. Lots of pain and NO blood! I would not carry a double edge karambit That I know would be grey area!! We do have our own plastic trainers as well and us them all the time! Most of my female students carry them all the time.

    Thanks for the great conversation,
    Salute
    Angelo Collado
     

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