Ken Tai Ichi Jo

[Stealthy]

Warning this thread contains material created by Non-Ninjutsu practitoners if your ego will not allow you to respect it then leave now.

The following material is extracted from a modern interpretation of an old black and white film produced in the 1950's.
[video=youtube;ANPsMIivvlM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPsMIivvlM&feature=related[/video]

Call me a glutton for punishment but this is a good example and I believe it belongs here unless of course someone can link a better clip illustrating Ken Tai Ichi Jo which is actually made by super awesome fluffy bunny Ninjers.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with transmitting the body weight through a proper Ninjutsu style shuto-ken(I have no problem delivering maximum power onto hard targets with mine) so he's a little bit off to suggest that it's not but by the same token as with all biomechanics the closer to your own centre the more stability there is so in some instances delivering through the forearm may in fact be best(insert your obligatory "no Sh** Sherlock" comment here).

One of the main benefits of an effective attack which employs 'Ken Tai Ichi Jo' fully is the destruction of the enemies Structure along with the damage to the localized target area and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Koppojutsu sometimes translated as Attacking the Structure.

This one is mildly more complex but arguably more useful since it contains the more common attack vectors employed to strike down through the core via the neck.

The very fact that a purely grappling art contains the same mechanics as those behind effective striking should be an indication that to fully integrate ALL of the tools available in Ninjutsu a practitioner should work on seamlessly flowing between all of the modalities(Kicking, Punching, Grappling and Weapons).

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Stealthy,

Hmm, glutton for punishment? Okay, here we go...

First thing to understand is that this is not a demonstration of Ken Tai Ichi Jo as understood and taught in the Ninjutsu organisations. The term encountered in Aikido circles of "Ken Tai Jo" actually refers to the different methods taught, with "Ken" meaning "Sword", "Tai" meaning "Body", and "Jo" being "Stick". Within our methods, Ken Tai Ichi Jo refers to "The weapon/fist (Ken, also pronounced Kobushi, so not the same as sword) and body (Tai) working as one (Ichi Jo)". Second might be to point out that the term "fluffy bunny ninjers" (most particularly the term "ninjers") is a term to describe fake/fraudulent "neo-ninjitsu" practitioners, so asking for a better example from them confuses us....

What these clips are are examples of solo body movement exercises, focusing on dropping body weight in time with contact, which is part of the Ken Tai Ichi Jo concept, but not the same thing. The movement is similar, but different. Ken Tai Ichi Jo is more about a complete unity in your movement, not just a number of things happening at once (okay, that's a little confusing.... honestly, this is a lot easier to do in person!).

Let's see if I can put it this way: The above clips feature the gentleman stepping, then extending his arm, and dropping as contact occurs. With us, ideally you should be able to basically keep your arm in a single position, and the body movement is how the power is transfered into the opponent. The arm doesn't extend (to a great degree).

Probably one of the better examples I can find is the following from the Jinenkan (Adam Mitchell Dojo-Cho):

You may note that the strikes are performed by keeping the body perfectly in tune with the itself and the strike/grapple etc. This is more the aim for us.

And, no, that's not a translation of "Koppojutsu", but is an interpretation of an aspect of the concept of Koppo.

 

[Stealthy]

Focusing on dropping body weight in time with contact, which is part of the Ken Tai Ichi Jo concept, but not the same thing. The movement is similar, but different. Ken Tai Ichi Jo is more about a complete unity in your movement, not just a number of things happening at once.

Let's see if I can put it this way: The above clips feature the gentleman stepping, then extending his arm, and dropping as contact occurs. With us, ideally you should be able to basically keep your arm in a single position, and the body movement is how the power is transfered into the opponent. The arm doesn't extend (to a great degree).

You may note that the strikes are performed by keeping the body perfectly in tune with the itself and the strike/grapple etc. This is more the aim for us.

And, no, that's not a translation of "Koppojutsu", but is an interpretation of an aspect of the concept of Koppo.

I do of course agree it's not the same thing but the clip had some value due to the effective way he described adding body drop to the strike. Thanks for highlighting that Ken Tai Ichi Jo goes way beyond just including natural body weight behind the strike, I don't know what they called the stuff up there certainly not Ken Tai Ichi Jo, I made the association since as you mentioned what they are doing is part of the concept.

Fantastic clip, your Youtube Fu is master class. I really like his jumping double thrust kick, such an impossible kick to do, I can't even begin to try it. The only time I find myself really needing it is when I am mid-step and the Uki goes for my powering leg most often with a Muay Thai style outside leg kick. For example say I am trying to turn him a bit and strike outside his area of expertise while alternating Heaven Earth by doing something like Ten Chi(Koto) but it doesn't work and instead of getting beside him a little and in time with his rhythm to deliver my kick(due to his punching) I find he has compensated correctly and has a solid bead on me, turns and delivers an outside leg kick. With one foot already weightless due to commencing the shift on to it to deliver my own kick I am unable to use it to power my evasion so it becomes the leg he is attacking that needs to power the evasion and consequent counter kick. So when I do a jumping both feet in the air kick(to clear the leg kick by going over it) it is only one leg I kick with and the other is essentially just trailing but it would be so cool to have the agility to fire both feet into the target instead of just one.

Oh and the neo-ninja line was just sarcasm through and through. I must have been feeling a little cheeky at the time, maybe losing 21 points of rep had something to do with it.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[Chris Parker]

I do of course agree it's not the same thing but the clip had some value due to the effective way he described adding body drop to the strike. Thanks for highlighting that Ken Tai Ichi Jo goes way beyond just including natural body weight behind the strike, I don't know what they called the stuff up there certainly not Ken Tai Ichi Jo, I made the association since as you mentioned what they are doing is part of the concept.

Okay, but when you present the clips in a thread entitled "Ken Tai Ichi Jo", and describe then as "a good example... unless anyone can link a better clip", it does indicate that you thought these were examples of the concept. Dropping your weight is just that, dropping your weight.

Fantastic clip, your Youtube Fu is master class. I really like his jumping double thrust kick, such an impossible kick to do, I can't even begin to try it.

Adam's stuff is always top qualiity, highly recommended.

The only time I find myself really needing it is when I am mid-step and the Uki goes for my powering leg most often with a Muay Thai style outside leg kick. For example say I am trying to turn him a bit and strike outside his area of expertise while alternating Heaven Earth by doing something like Ten Chi(Koto) but it doesn't work and instead of getting beside him a little and in time with his rhythm to deliver my kick(due to his punching) I find he has compensated correctly and has a solid bead on me, turns and delivers an outside leg kick. With one foot already weightless due to commencing the shift on to it to deliver my own kick I am unable to use it to power my evasion so it becomes the leg he is attacking that needs to power the evasion and consequent counter kick. So when I do a jumping both feet in the air kick(to clear the leg kick by going over it) it is only one leg I kick with and the other is essentially just trailing but it would be so cool to have the agility to fire both feet into the target instead of just one.

You seem to be looking for answers, rather than ways to find an answer in the moment. I wouldn't worry about anything you've listed here, but if I was to make a comment, it would be that you have missed the concept of grappling against a kicker/striker.

Oh and the neo-ninja line was just sarcasm through and through. I must have been feeling a little cheeky at the time, maybe losing 21 points of rep had something to do with it.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

Sarcasm doesn't always translate, especially when others can't see the context that lead to it. It could be things like that (where people don't see why you posted something) that lead to such rep issues. Smilies can help with that though!

 

[Stealthy]

If I was to make a comment, it would be that you have missed the concept of grappling against a kicker/striker.

Touche. Do you have a suggestion for employing grappling against an outside leg kick(a kata name will do if you want to keep things on the down low)?

There was meant to be a smiley, I forgot it.

 

[Chris Parker]

Sorry, Stealthy, that wasn't intended to be harsh, just that the idea you were refering to of taking someone out of their area of strength is applied by not staying in kicking and striking range of a kicker/striker. In terms of ways of employing grappling, there is no kata for it, as that type of kick isn't found in the traditional material (for a number of reasons). But there are a number of ways of doing it, which involve either letting it go past, or moving in. I suppose the closest kinda thing you may have seen would be something like Kohane Tsurube from Gyokko Ryu (moving in against a striking/kicking attack).

 

[Stealthy]

Awesome thanks.