Ken Corona Hwarangdo?

[shesulsa]

Thank you, Kuk Sa Nim De Alba, and I appreciate your response to the topic. It's great to hear from people on the board who know Master Corona.

Farang!

G. Ketchmark

 

[deckerweb]

This is a fascinating medium. I have learned so much by this discussion and others on this board. I hope it is not obvious that I am not so savvy with the up and coming, but this thread has especially held my attention, so I’ve read up on several topics while I’ve been here. May I offer my two sense as well?



Obviously, this thread is about more than an individual, it is just that this individual stands out. I think this thread is about culture; the culture of this Kwan; the HRD tribe. KJN Corona gave me my understanding of the bond we share. It is that of honor before pride; a belief that respect, loyalty, and even love is a gift shared between a student and their teacher; and to “do more, talk less”. KJN bares the burden of his freedom like a weight. The emancipation was necessary and best… but KJN won’t speak ill of DJN, wishes him well even. KJN won’t speak up to defend himself, wouldn’t lower himself through “self-promotion”, or self aggrandizing. Honor (dignity) comes before pride. He just wants to teach and forge his own path. (I apologize for speaking for one not present but this is MHO).



What truly speaks out about this thread is how many of us there are. The cast out; the expelled; the remnant. Are we Hwarang, still, not being able to speak the word? Trademark restrictions and all. Funny, I don’t feel different. Still know the forms; still know the techniques; still study the HwaRangDo-O-Kae. Yet when I’m out and about in MA circles and I’m asked, “…, what do you study?” there is this awkward pause. I don’t know what to say. Recently, I just say I’m HKD and hope to avoid the usual conversation that follows.



Why are there so many of us? I have “cousins” I will never know because the families are feuding. KJN Corona and KJN Elliot never had a falling-out. They were/are childhood friends. They are separated because of a punishment WHRDA rendered upon a dissenter. One is WHRDA, and one is not, that is all.



I said in jest to KSN Chris the other day (when he was encouraging me to post) that I will ask the question, “to Kwan, or not to Kwan”. He laughed and said, “Please don’t”. I guess it is not really a jest. I want to know. What do we do now? Does the WHRDA matter? Do Kwans matter? Does rank matter?



Does anyone know?



Very Truly,

Scott Decker

 

[shesulsa]

Greetings, Mr. Decker.

I am intrigued by your post, sir.

Thank you.

G. Ketchmark

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Scott:

Kwans, in fact DO matter, however the institution needs to be treated as more than a term to invoke some romantic past. The nature of the kwan carries with it significant responsibilities both for the teacher AND the student. There are many times terms are misused with, I believe, the most common being the use of "federation" and "association" to describe an organization which is really a sole proprietorship. Until people generate enough integrity within themselves to actually do what they say they are doing, the term "kwan" will continue to be misused and misapplied. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

Hello Scott,
It's very good to bring up issues that you feel close to. The ones you brought up here (among several others), were also brought up at our "HRD Renegade Meeting" in 1993. (Wow, that was already 11 yrs ago!). We discussed our mutual concerns, confusion and attachments among other topics such as rank and it's meaning/worth.

This art that we love resides in our heart, not on a piece of paper, not in our belts nor affiliations. Nor can it be owned by any person. This is why martial arts are such a powerful vehicle for self confidence, self discipline and empowerment to people of all walks of life. They become a very personal expression of ones many joys. It also provides answers to our many fears as well. They stimulate and reach a diversity of people on so many different levels. The rewards they provide are priceless. One must never loose sight of ones hopes and dreams, as well as our zeal to pursue them.

When discussing rank and titles, one must look at them as a double edged sword. It cuts both ways. In as much as rank and titles don't mean a thing to the "outsider" and surely an opponent in the street. They could care less what rank we have, what titles, belts, etc we posses. Self defense is self defense. When the rubber hits the road, it's not what you know, it's what you can do. This SELF DEFENSE aspect must never be lost in our training. We ARE DOING Martial Arts. On the other hand, our rank, titles, customs and etiquette have real value only to those of us who are directly involved and understand and appreciate them. They are VERY heavy, as they are not easily attained by just anyone. Truly attained, earned, you know what I mean? This something one can have pride in. But as I said, don't take it all too seriously.

Anyway, just a couple thoughts. Keep up the good work.

With brotherhood,

GM De Alba

 

[Sun Bae]

Having been around HRD since 1984 when you had to test at the Downey HQ for every belt in front of a committee of Kwan Jang Nim with Do Joo Nim heading up the testing while seated at a table in the middle of all the Kwan Jang Nim and a little 12 year old brat child running around yelling at everyone, while a very courteous 9 year old offered his services, I might have a little perspective on the original intent of this thread.

My original HRD teacher was Kwan Jang Nim Chu, who you will not find listed on the official HRD web page. Kwan Jang Nim Gil Kim considered Kwan Jang Nim Chu to be his older brother and would stop by Kwan Jang Nim Chu's school and spare with us, this is the way to learn MA!, getting beat up by a Kwan Jang Nim LOL; all though, I believe it was Sa Bum Nim Kim at the time. My second HRD teacher was Kyo Sa Nim Corona who became Sa Bum Nim Corona who later became Kwan Jang Nim Corona and is no longer listed on the HRD web page. I was one of Kwan Jang Nim Corona's first "Tempe boys and Girls Club/City Park/University Blvd" students. Just for reference I also studied with Kwan Jang Nim Elliot, Sa Bum Nim Tyler and the Bain brothers. I have also studied under Sifu Kam Yuen and various other martial arts, unfortunately the martial arts have been more of an intellectual exercise and my highest progression has been to half-black, I really don't have the talent of my older HRD brothers.

When I visit the HRD HQ web page the original and best students of HRD including Kwan Jang Nim Chu, Kwan Jang Nim Gil Kim, Kwan Jang Nim Corona and many others are conspicuously missing from the Black Belt and above list, obviously something is up! The real question is; is it anyone's business besides Do Joo Nim and the students who have been removed from the list? I would say let sleeping dogs lie and pray that Do Joo Num shows true leadership and reconciles the differences in private restoring the family he started and then alienated.

I have done extensive research into the linage of HRD and if you are reading this Bruce, Do Joo Nim was almost your boss having been the top ranked Hap Ki Do Master at one time; all though, the Hap Ki Do you know would not be the Hap Ki Do taught by Do Joo Nim Lee. I have studied Kuk Sul Won under In Huk Su and find HRD and Kuk Sul Won to be surprisingly similar and I really don't want to debate which one is better. From my observations better is based on the individual; though, I do believe the quality control of HRD was incredibly tight at one time, which is verifiable by the abilities of the HRD first generation students. As far as differences and similarities between different Korean martial arts this is how I see it:

Hwa Rang Do: Composed of hard and soft kicks, punches, blocks, locking (praying mantis type), joint locks and breaks, throws, kung fu style forms all integrated into one art; in other words, when you learn each aspect of HRD you are also taught how to flow from one technique into another no matter what category it comes from. If you study Tae Chi and learn the combative interpretations of the movements and you learn HRD you will soon find out the techniques are the same. Kwan Jang Nim Chu taught a style of HRD that more fits the description of Lee Joo Sang with the soft touch that In Huk Sul demonstrates and taught the concept of flowing from hard to soft and soft to hard in a continuous motion. For example, drawing your opponent in with a soft block and then turning the energy around and exploding into your opponent with a hard linear technique. The way the techniques flow between each other are actually in the forms, which is probably difficult for someone from say Hap Ki Do to understand because originally they didn't have forms, what a contrast.

Hap Ki Do: I studied it for a for a few weeks when I lived in a place where I did not have access to a HRD school and the Kwan Jang Nim asked me to leave, refunded all my money and tore up the one year contract I signed because the students where asking me too many questions about techniques. I just wanted to workout with some folks that had similar interests. I went to another Hap Ki Do school and the instructor kept asking me to demonstrate the kicking techniques, I quit because I did not feel right teaching HRD kicking techniques to non HRD students, again no forms or way to fluidly flow between techniques. The little Hap Ki Do I did experience appeared to teach a subset of HRD joint manipulation, throwing and basic kicks as distinct techniques that did not flow together, I am sure it depends on the Hap Ki Do school since the term was used so loosely at one time.

Kuk Sul Won: It is obvious that In Huk Sul and Do Joo Nim Lee have had some kind of relationship in the past, the belt ranking, forms and joint manipulation techniques follow a very similar pattern; all though, HRD has a richer variety of kicking techniques, forms and flows between them much more fluidly. In Huk Su does have a tremendous amount of Ki and displays a much softer version of the techniques then the main stream HRD teachers, more like the soft touch of Kwan Jang Nim Chu.

Tae Kwon Do: Yeah, I studied this also and eventually was only allowed to spare with one guy who was literally a foot taller than me, 5' - 6' against a 6' - 7" person. Very challenging, the only time I came out on top was when he got cocky and tried to grapple with me, needless to say he went down quick. It is very difficult to close the gap on a guy that is a foot taller, very athletic, keeps the distance to his advantage and keeps trying to kick and punch you in the head when you get close; oh yeah, sparing rules only allow kicking and punching above the waist. I really didn't see the similarities between TKD and HRD beyond the first two belts in HRD, it reminded me more of Japanese Karate or a softer version of Tong Soo Do; where as, HRD kicking, grappling and forms remind me more of Chinese Kung Fu and Chin Na crossed with Aiki Jujitsu, even the short forms of HRD follow the tradition of short forms you find in Chinese Kung Fu.

As I stated before, it is easy to debate which is the best martial art; though, I believe it is not the art as much as it is the artist. Look at Bill “super foot” Wallace he perfected three kicks and retired undefeated heavy height champion by knocking people out with his three kicks, execution and timing is everything. What HRD offers is more options to the student and knowledge on how to execute and flow from technique to technique, does this translate into a superior student or martial artist, I don’t know. Remember Bill knocked opponents out with one of three kicks, nothing fancy.

What about conditioning and training? Does practicing several combinations of kicks and punches from various awkward angles improve you coordination; maybe, I have only seen these types of drills in HRD and Northern Shaolin Kung Fu. Do intense drills that make you feel like your going to pass out give you an edge from an endurance standpoint? Does personal instruction from the Kwan Jang Nim of a school insisting that you attempt the same technique thousands of times being corrected every so often by the Kwan Jang Nim make a difference?

So with all this in mind who is Do Joo Nim: He is a man that is considered to be a "National Treasure" to South Korea, which is a pretty impressive resume and testifies to his ability as a martial artist. Do Joo Nim was the first choice for heir to the art of Hap Ki Do and turned it down to be Do Joo Nim of HRD, having much more to offer thru the combination of martial arts he had learned from his diversity of teachers. Like I said, I don't know the history of the break up between the original masters; even though, I would have a greater respect for the leaders of the KMA if they would reconcile their differences, though it is not my place to intercede.

To the point of who is Kwan Jang Nim Corona: If my memory serves me correctly, he studied the Japanese martial arts of Aikido, Aiki Jujitsu, Judo, Karate and Kendo for 10 years under a first generation Aikido Master before becoming a direct live-in student of Do Joo Nim at the young age of 19. There is a tradition in the martial arts where the father does not always teach their children directly and this tradition was followed by Do Joo Nim. Kwan Jang Nim Corona was one of the students Do Joo Nim taught with the specific intent of teaching his children directly, do you think Kwan Jang Nim Corona received the best training possible from a man that is considered to be a "Nation Treasure", based on his expertise in the martial arts? Kwan Jang Nim Corona was taught well beyond his official rank by Do Joo Nim and is one of the highest ranking non Korean Kwan Jang Nim's in the world, I would not take this lightly. The first generation HRD students can testify that the HRD that was originally taught in the US will never be taught today because of potential law suits; even though, the original training techniques produced some of the finest martial artists in the world.

I think it should also be stated that Kwan Jang Nim Corona travels all over the country teaching seminars (or at least he did at one time, I have been out of touch for about 3 years) to martial art schools, law enforcement agencies and military. I remember Kwan Jang Nim Corona looking for wall space to put plaques he received from law enforcement agencies commending him on the training of their officers. On a more personal note, I can also remember officers thanking Kwan Jang Nim Corona for the training they received, indicating that it saved their lives. For example: an officer was attacked by two men who gained possession of his fire arm, the officer used the training he received from Kwan Jang Nim Corona to not only recover his weapon he also subdued both men with only minor injuries to the assailants. I have heard other police officers thank Kwan Jang Nim Corona because he taught them how to subdue a perpetrator while protecting the perpetrator; thus, resulting in a non-controversial arrest.

Kwan Jang Nim Corona is one of HRD’s most dedicated and gifted teachers, even if he is not sanctioned by the WHRDA. His teaching has affected the lives of thousands and he has unselfishly shared his knowledge of the martial arts for many years. He has always shown the utmost patience, knowledge and integrity you would expect from a true master and teacher of the martial arts deserving of the utmost respect. The best testimony of a teacher is the ability of their students and Kwan Jang Nim Corona has left an incredible legacy that is evident by visiting the schools of his students.

I hope this post was not out of line and if any of the HRD older brothers see any errors in this post please feel free to correct them.

Thank you Kwan Jang Nim Corona for being my teacher and older brother in the arts,
Sun Bae

 

[shesulsa]

Thank you for posting, Sun Bae. It is always good to hear from others who know KJN Corona.

Just for clarification, again - this thread was not initiated to discuss politics that are nobody's business except those whom that business involves. Please give a great martial artist the respect of leaving sleeping dogs lie.

While it is great to know that those who know Master Corona are so very willing to jump to his defense, I do not wish to discuss things that are none of my business on this thread nor anywhere else.

A simple sentence can only be understated: Master Corona's ability, talent and character all speak for themselves. There is no need to beat a dead horse. Those who don't know Master Corona are truly deprived.

Farang

 

[shesulsa]

Well, we just finished part one of a two-part seminar by Master Corona here in Washington! In fact, I'll be brief because I need some rest before tomorrow!

He is such a charasmatic teacher - he taught a mixed children's class for over two hours and kept all their focus and attention the whole time. It's so cool to watch him teach.

Everybody had a blast - even KSN Carmen Gallino commented on how nice it was to have his teacher in town again.

Mr. Donnelly, do you have any plans to visit the Pacific Northwest sometime in the future?

 

[shesulsa]

Everybody had a blast - even KSN Carmen Gallino commented on how nice it was to have his teacher in town again.

Mr. Donnelly, do you have any plans to visit the Pacific Northwest sometime in the future?

...or you, GM De Alba?

 

[Bob D.]

If KJN Corona is still there, give him a warm hello from Me and tricia.
We just got back from San Francisco visiting Dr. Jason Groomer. While there GM DeAlba and his lovely wife took us to an amazing dinner. Great conversation and food!
I've never been to WA. but if a seminar where planned to cover travel........
Bob

 

[shesulsa]

I'll forward this to KSN Gallino - he will be in contact with KJN today - I hesitate to phone there because I don't want to interrupt anything.

It would be great to have you visit. I hear it's hot there now - hope things cool off for you soon.

 

[The Kai]

We just got back from San Francisco visiting Dr. Jason Groomer. While there GM DeAlba and his lovely wife took us to an amazing dinner. Great conversation and food!

One of the things about GM DeAlba is that he is a class act through and through, as well as a fantastic Martial Artist

 

[baileywoobaeRK]

I don't know what you all see in KJN Corona, but he is a great martial artist and an awesome person. I have trained with him, have any of you? How can you judge someone without getting to know them first? Isn't that what martial arts is about, learning to control yourself and emotions before making rash, rude, and uncalled for statements? You should all be ashamed!

-Farang

 

[shesulsa]

Woo Bae, I would encourage you to read this thread more carefully. Indeed there are several of us here who have trained with Master Corona and hold him in very high regard. Those who know him are well aware of his talent, charisma, ability, character...the list goes on. EDIT: In fact, of the 15 users who have posted to this thread, two posted negative and disrespectful comments and one posted neutral comments - the remaining dozen have only had positive things to say, though the conversation does seem to want to steer toward unseeming conversation, much to my dismay. And I must say if we cannot have friendly conversation regarding Master Corona I will ask for the thread to be locked.

Perhaps, if you are interested in defending your master so vociferously on this board, you might care to address those who have spoken negatively about him - not all of us. You can do this by privately messaging the individuals you take issue with, rather than posting blanket statements here.

Grand Master (Kuk Sa Nim) De Alba, SBN Donnelly, KSN Lopez as well as students have weighed in on this thread in defense of Kwan Jang Nim Corona.

Personally, I know Master Corona does not like politics and this thread was never intended to discuss sensitive topics that are none of our business nor events we never witnessed. Others, however, seem to be drawn to the stigma of the KMA - that of being the problem child. Those who would judge someone they do not know are ignorant and deserve no attention, no argument.

Let's all keep our heads and our hearts where they belong, and hold our tongues where necessary out of respect for a great martial artist, eh?

Welcome to the board and happy posting.

Farang,
Son Bae Georgia Ketchmark
CMAAWA

 

[shesulsa]

SBN Donnelly, please forgive my ignorance - are you currently teaching in AZ?

KSN Lopez - same question?

Respectfully,

G.K.

 

[Pheonix]

To answer your original question I have worked with KJN Corona once. I was at one of the seminars he did in washington and I learned quite a bit. Though I do wish the seminar were longer so I could have learned more but I am grateful for the time I got to learn from him.

I do believe that the only person that knows me here is Shesulsa.

Farang,
Adam

 

[shesulsa]

Hey, Adam! Go start a thread in the Meet & Greet introducing yourself!

JKN Ketchmark

 

[mystic warrior]

I know some people would probably like to strip it of these aspects and reduce it to the same level as boxing or wrestling. I'm not saying people CAN'T do it. I'm just saying I'd rather not have it done around me. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

But bruce not everyone that is in martial arts feels the same way that you or I do about it.
Truth be told martial arts is not about the arts any more.
It is more about baby sitting kids for people that should have never had kids to begin with. Or how much money I as a teacher can make of my students.
Sorry about the rant.
I am just not happy with the state of martial arts these days.

 

[shesulsa]

FYI mystic warrior, The user glad2bhere has been banned from these forums so he cannot answer you.

 

[mystic warrior]

ok