ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_112607_karate_abuse_charges.3f9762db.html
Click there to read the news story.
AoG
Click there to read the news story.
AoG
Karate Teacher Charged With Kicking Child Over 200 Times
- Thread starter ArmorOfGod
- Start date
OP
ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #2
If you want to see that school's website, it has been taken down, but you can see what it looked like several month ago through archive.org , which takes snapshots of what dead sites (& currently active ones) looked like.
Click here to see it: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.jbkarate.com/
AoG
Click here to see it: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.jbkarate.com/
AoG
This is such a twisted concept of what MA training is about that you have to assume, if the story holds up factually, that the Batemans were involved in some shared mental pathology, a kind of folie à deux that led them to use their positions as instructors to express what has to be some kind of sadism disorder. Every parent's nightmare, in other words—your child winds up being cannon fodder for sickos who've been able to conceal their game—maybe for years. Let's just hope the child ultimately recovers from his injuries, and that the prosecution brings in the maximum indictment possible for this crime.
What I don't get, though, is where the parents were when this happened. I have a ten-year old, and if he were doing MAs, I'd be present at every class he was in. And that wouldn's change a year down the line, after he turned 11. For a lot of people, MAs are a kind of babysitting/after-school rec program for their kids; this is one excellent example of the dangers of thinking of the MAs that way.
What I don't get, though, is where the parents were when this happened. I have a ten-year old, and if he were doing MAs, I'd be present at every class he was in. And that wouldn's change a year down the line, after he turned 11. For a lot of people, MAs are a kind of babysitting/after-school rec program for their kids; this is one excellent example of the dangers of thinking of the MAs that way.
grydth
Senior Master
As my youngest used to say," Sumpin' stinks in here!"......... but what, exactly?
We'll need to see what facts come out in the legal proceedings.
200 kicks sounds immense - - - what's the deal here: S+M posing as karate? The evil Karate Kid dojo come to life? Could they be fakes who went way too far with their act?
Yet, seen another way - how powerful could those kicks have been if the kid's still around. Nobody would take a tenth of that number of real kicks from the instructors at my kids' school and still be around to complain.
Yes, where indeed were the parents? Isn't it odd that, in so many tales of abused and murdered children, the parents were off doing something else?
Lots of questions - let's see what we get for answers as this unfolds.
We'll need to see what facts come out in the legal proceedings.
200 kicks sounds immense - - - what's the deal here: S+M posing as karate? The evil Karate Kid dojo come to life? Could they be fakes who went way too far with their act?
Yet, seen another way - how powerful could those kicks have been if the kid's still around. Nobody would take a tenth of that number of real kicks from the instructors at my kids' school and still be around to complain.
Yes, where indeed were the parents? Isn't it odd that, in so many tales of abused and murdered children, the parents were off doing something else?
Lots of questions - let's see what we get for answers as this unfolds.
See, that's what really troubles megiven the vulnerability of children to predators of all kinds, why was this kid left on his own to undergo this kind of treatment?
And yes, it's true200 kicks? That does seem like a huge number to absorb and still be alive. ... yet another news story which on the face of it makes no sense.
seninoniwashi
Green Belt
Unfortunately all it takes is one egg to ruin the whole cartoon. Seeing stuff like this bothers me, it gives martial arts a bad name. The art of Kenpo has received a lot of bad publicity due to teachers like this taking it too far. Anyone out there that is familiar to Kenpo knows that per tradition when belt testing a student sustains a kick from the instructor. The kick is a single kick and is controlled by the instructor fitting what he believes is JUST enough for the student at their progressed level.
My hope is publicity stays within just their school.
My hope is publicity stays within just their school.
That's a bit bizarre....but who counted 200 kicks? Not that I don't believe what I read in the media or anything....if someone kicked me 200 times I would be more prone to worry about injury etc than thinking "hmm 198,199,200,...."
Not just that kid's parents....but where were the OTHER parents? I mean, we have parents that drop their kids off, but there has NEVER been a class where there were no parents that stayed. There's always at least one, and even if it wasn't their kid, most parents would say something about that. Or pull their own kid out.
I'd suspect that the TKD school is one with "before & after school programs" where the kids are dropped off before school, go to "real" school from the TKD school, get picked up after school, and the parents pick them up in the evening.
I've said it before; these programs scare me, and this is exactly why. They aren't supervised or regulated like the day care program they really are. And the parents are blindly trusting that it'll be fine...
But I also doubt this was the first time something like this happened at this school. I doubt that the instructor woke up that day, and said "I think I'm gonna beat on a kid today." I suspect that they did similar things for a while.
Exactlya martial arts program can be the perfect camouflage for sadistic personalities to get free rein to indulge their personality defect. Misconceptions about the MAs are general enough in the poplulation that, unfortunately, the Cobra Kai model is probably viewed as the default by many people who don't really have a clue. I suspect that some parents, at some level, confuse that kind of structured brutality with the instillation of `discipline' in their children, something they find themselves unable to do in an effective way themselves.
Yeah, I'm wondering what more there is to this or what may have gotten confused in the early reporting...
Given the accuracy level of most journalism, it would be worth keeping an eye on this story to see exactly what turns out to have happened. This is the problem with forming judgments on the basis of newpaper stories... I suspect there's more than a little Rita Skeeter in many reporters working for dailies... I'm still trying to withhold judgment till the facts are made clearer, but we'll probably have to wait for the court hearings themselves for that.
This one sounds like it could have some truthful elements along with a heavy dose of exaggeration.
First of all, I have trained where taking kicks and punches was the norm and just part of regular conditioning. (No we did not blast each other as hard as we could.) They were controlled strikes and were varied according to the individual. We used common sense the goal was to condition you body NOT break it.
Kids were never hit by the instructors. Only each other. (What were they thinking?)
Second, if the instructors stepped over the line and even half of it is true, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve as an example of what not to be.
For now I will step outside of my usual box and not condemn until the facts are in........????
Marc-
First of all, I have trained where taking kicks and punches was the norm and just part of regular conditioning. (No we did not blast each other as hard as we could.) They were controlled strikes and were varied according to the individual. We used common sense the goal was to condition you body NOT break it.
Kids were never hit by the instructors. Only each other. (What were they thinking?)
Second, if the instructors stepped over the line and even half of it is true, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve as an example of what not to be.
For now I will step outside of my usual box and not condemn until the facts are in........????
Marc-
Wow...
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7411739
Martial arts teacher arrested for kicking student 200 times
if (document.layers) {document.write(''); document.close();}coreAdsCreate('wnsz_20', 'loc', '100');
Associated Press - November 26, 2007 8:15 PM ET
SUFFOLK, Va. (AP) - A martial arts instructor has been arrested for kicking an 11-year-old student more than 200 times, causing internal injuries and possibly breaking a rib.
Police say 47-year-old Susan Bateman of Hampton was arrested November 20th and charged with one felony count of child endangerment.
Police Lieutenant D.J. George says Bateman issued a challenge November 7th during class at a Suffolk dojo to see how many kicks to the abdomen students could take. Students got into a push-up position while Bateman kicked, stopping when the student either said to or went to his or her knees.
George says the 11-year-old boy and another student took more than 200 kicks as the class counted.
The student didn't tell his parents until he needed medical attention.
Information from: The Virginian-Pilot, http://www.pilotonline.com
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7411739
Martial arts teacher arrested for kicking student 200 times
if (document.layers) {document.write(''); document.close();}coreAdsCreate('wnsz_20', 'loc', '100');
Associated Press - November 26, 2007 8:15 PM ET
SUFFOLK, Va. (AP) - A martial arts instructor has been arrested for kicking an 11-year-old student more than 200 times, causing internal injuries and possibly breaking a rib.
Police say 47-year-old Susan Bateman of Hampton was arrested November 20th and charged with one felony count of child endangerment.
Police Lieutenant D.J. George says Bateman issued a challenge November 7th during class at a Suffolk dojo to see how many kicks to the abdomen students could take. Students got into a push-up position while Bateman kicked, stopping when the student either said to or went to his or her knees.
George says the 11-year-old boy and another student took more than 200 kicks as the class counted.
The student didn't tell his parents until he needed medical attention.
Information from: The Virginian-Pilot, http://www.pilotonline.com
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Another on the same story...
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7410233&nav=23iiZga0
Karate instructor accused of kicking student over 200 times
Posted:var wn_last_ed_date = getLEDate("Nov 26, 2007 3:56 PM EST"); document.write(wn_last_ed_date); Nov 26, 2007 02:56 PM CST
Updated:var wn_last_ed_date = getLEDate("Nov 27, 2007 12:48 PM EST"); document.write(wn_last_ed_date); Nov 27, 2007 11:48 AM CST
Also on WAVY.com
Go to the WAVY Blogs and blog this topic
if (document.layers) {document.write(''); document.close();}coreAdsCreate('wnsz_20', 'loc', '100');
Karate teaches self-control, discipline, and moderation. But Suffolk police say one lesson was too much for a young boy, when instructor Susan Bateman, of Jeff Bateman's School of Karate, kicked him in the ribs and stomach more than 200 times.
Police say Bateman was teaching her students toughness, challenging them to take as many kicks as possible.
"Some students may have taken ten kicks, and some students may have taken fifty kicks. And two actually took over 200 kicks," says Debbie George, of the Suffolk Police Department.
One student, an 11-year-old, was injured. George says "he did suffer some internal injuries and possibly a fractured rib."
Bateman turned herself in last Tuesday on a Felony charge of Child Endangerment. But a conversation with Susan Bateman's brother sheds a different light on the karate instructor.
"I think everybody's jumping the gun," warns Charlie Walston, Bateman's younger brother.
Walston says the student could've stopped the kicking at any point. The student was in a push up position and Bateman would kick the student between the stomach and ribs 25 times before asking if the student wanted to stop. If the student said he would like to continue, Bateman would then switch to the other side for 25 more kicks before asking once again.
Walston says the student was trying to break a record set by a different student in the Hampton studio when he kept going for some 200 kicks.
"He was asked repeatedly if he wanted to stop and he kept going until he beat the record. Then he said, 'Well, now I hold the record,'" says Walston.
And Walston says parents in the nearby observation room could've jumped in to stop the kicking if they thought it was too much.
"There was definitely other people's parents there to stop the abuse, if there was any abuse going on at any time and I just don't think that's the case."
Police say Bateman could face more charges as they find out if any other students have been injured.
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7410233&nav=23iiZga0
Karate instructor accused of kicking student over 200 times
Posted:var wn_last_ed_date = getLEDate("Nov 26, 2007 3:56 PM EST"); document.write(wn_last_ed_date); Nov 26, 2007 02:56 PM CST
Updated:var wn_last_ed_date = getLEDate("Nov 27, 2007 12:48 PM EST"); document.write(wn_last_ed_date); Nov 27, 2007 11:48 AM CST
Go to the WAVY Blogs and blog this topic
if (document.layers) {document.write(''); document.close();}coreAdsCreate('wnsz_20', 'loc', '100');
Karate teaches self-control, discipline, and moderation. But Suffolk police say one lesson was too much for a young boy, when instructor Susan Bateman, of Jeff Bateman's School of Karate, kicked him in the ribs and stomach more than 200 times.
Police say Bateman was teaching her students toughness, challenging them to take as many kicks as possible.
"Some students may have taken ten kicks, and some students may have taken fifty kicks. And two actually took over 200 kicks," says Debbie George, of the Suffolk Police Department.
One student, an 11-year-old, was injured. George says "he did suffer some internal injuries and possibly a fractured rib."
Bateman turned herself in last Tuesday on a Felony charge of Child Endangerment. But a conversation with Susan Bateman's brother sheds a different light on the karate instructor.
"I think everybody's jumping the gun," warns Charlie Walston, Bateman's younger brother.
Walston says the student could've stopped the kicking at any point. The student was in a push up position and Bateman would kick the student between the stomach and ribs 25 times before asking if the student wanted to stop. If the student said he would like to continue, Bateman would then switch to the other side for 25 more kicks before asking once again.
Walston says the student was trying to break a record set by a different student in the Hampton studio when he kept going for some 200 kicks.
"He was asked repeatedly if he wanted to stop and he kept going until he beat the record. Then he said, 'Well, now I hold the record,'" says Walston.
And Walston says parents in the nearby observation room could've jumped in to stop the kicking if they thought it was too much.
"There was definitely other people's parents there to stop the abuse, if there was any abuse going on at any time and I just don't think that's the case."
Police say Bateman could face more charges as they find out if any other students have been injured.
If you kick an 11 year old 200 times and just "possibly breaking a rib" then you just may be the product of a McDojo.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I know someone that kicks trees to train... can he kick the instructors just oh say 25 times apiece
Hell can I kick the instructors just 10 times apiece
Or can we line up and give them the full 200
What the HELL is wrong with them, you DON’T kick an 11-year-old PERIOD.
Hell can I kick the instructors just 10 times apiece
Or can we line up and give them the full 200
What the HELL is wrong with them, you DON’T kick an 11-year-old PERIOD.
Live True
Brown Belt
There were parents in a nearby observation room! And NO ONE stepped in?!?!?!?!? :angry: What kind of idiots stand by and watch kids get kicked that many times and don't at least QUESTION what is going on?...The class counted the kicks? And no one thought to question?
I can appreciate competitive spirit. I can appreciate the concept of conditioning (being new to MA, I have a very limited experience here), but my understanding is that conditioning is based on what the instructor thinks the student can handle...not on what an 11 year old judges as "cool". I can even appreciate challenging oneself, but shouldn't the instructors have been a voice of reason and control?
That's it...put this down in the books as another example of
some people are just sheep. grrr, hiss, spit, growl!
