Karate and Weapons.

[arnisador]

I've heard it suggested that all Karate techniques are really weapons techniques--that the kata are designed to allow one to practice the techniques for fighting with weapons without those weapons. For example, doesn't the spearhand make more sense if one imagines a bladed weapon in that hand?

I think the suggestion that all Karate techniques are really weapons techniques is intentionally exaggerated so as to be provacative, but still I find it interesting to review sequences of techniques and ask myself if I can imagine them as weapons techniques.

Does anyone practice what are usually thought of as empty-hand kata using weapons?

 

[stickarts]

i have often tried various weapons and translated them into my emptyhand forms. some forms adapt well and some don't!
I also have my advanced ranks try this drill. I think it is a good learning experience. If nothing else, it is good to try and think "outside of the box" every so often.

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

The ueichiryu kata seisan with fans or sai's

 

[lhommedieu]

I've practiced Chinese forms that adaped quite well to weapons. One, in particular, is initially taught as an empty hand version - but is later taught with double sai or double dagger.

I think that if you practice with weapons a lot it becomes easier to pick out the logical implications of "empty hand" forms for weapons. These can often take place during the transitionsfrom one technique to another, as well replacing the empty hand technique.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[drunken mistress]

By chance my 7 year old son discovered that practicing katas with a plastic sword worked rather well. I´m happier for him to use his toy sword like this as the different directions in Shiozuki and Pinan katas tend to ensure he doesn´t poke himself in the face as he probably would if he was just whacking the sword around.

 

[vincefuess]

I have practiced all of the Kenpo techniques with various weapons in hand, and am continually amazed at how easily they adapt. The technique "Five Swords" works great with a set of Tonfa.

The problem most stylists have with weapons is that once they have the weapon in hand it becomes their sole focus. Look at the weapoin as just another part of your body, and all kinds of doors open for you.

 

[gojukylie]

The only weapon that I have used to substitue the empty hand is the Sai. Makes for a different application to your techniques and helps keep your wrists strong and straight. I must say however that kata is a library available to Karateka. Study them and broaden your horizons for I have found answers whilst doing so. artyon:

 

[arnisador]

I agree that the sai often fits better than many other weapons. Look at gojushiho kata with and without it, for instance.

Is there really a style of karate that uses the fan as a weapon? It must be a Japanese style?

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Years ago when I studied Okinawan karate, I used to do Fuku Gata Ichi with a staff. Worked out OK, but never took it further than that. I also did our style's staff form empty-handed, and came up with what I then considered revolutionary techniques. Then I studied Kenpo and found out that my "revolutionary" techniques were common knowledge. Ah, well... .

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm very skeptical of this claim. I've seen an attempted demonstration. Yet, many bunkai are specifically "hand" orientated. If this is a deeper kata level, then it is really deep, because I don't think that the weapon techniques presented in the demonstration(s) i've seen are very effective. Maybe a more knowledgeable practioner could work them out...

Unfortunately, this may just be one of the many misunderstandings presented regarding kata.

 

[searcher]

I would have to say that the practise of empty hand is intended to lead a karateka to the practise of weapons. One thing to remember is that weapons are supposed to be an extension of your body. If you have not mastered the movement of your body then you can't really get down the use of a weapon.

It is good to have students try and put a weapon into an empty hand form. It makes them step back and think a little.

 

[Gene Williams]

I think it is reaching to try to fit weapons into empty hand kata. There are weapons kata from various Okinawan ryu that are plenty to keep you busy. I call doing empty hand kata with weapons "playing." Its o.k. if you don't take it too seriously and think you have created something or discovered something new. As for all empty hand kata being weapons kata...forget it. Not so.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I had the opportunity to meet GM Taika Oyata (Ryukyu Kempo). What he told me is that the weapon katas are actually used to enhance open hand techniques.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

I think it is reaching to try to fit weapons into empty hand kata. There are weapons kata from various Okinawan ryu that are plenty to keep you busy.

Yes, I agree. Adding weapons to empty hand kata sometimes works but on balance I think it's a stretch. As you point out, there isn't a shortage of legitimate kobudo forms to practice!

 

[arnisador]

I had the opportunity to meet GM Taika Oyata (Ryukyu Kempo). What he told me is that the weapon katas are actually used to enhance open hand techniques.

There's an idea I've heard before! But, I've never had a karate instructor say it to me--there I generally heard it the other way, that one should focus on empty hand techniques and the weapon techniques would follow naturally from them (similar to searcher's comments above).

 

[Gene Williams]

I'm not sure what Oyata meant. I've been to a seminar of his, and have trained with several of his dan. They don't do as many waepons as other ryu, but the weapons kata are separate from the empty hand kata, many of which are the same ones we do. He may have just meant that doing weapons kata will help and supplement your empty hand kata, and I agree with that.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I'm not sure what Oyata meant. I've been to a seminar of his, and have trained with several of his dan. They don't do as many waepons as other ryu, but the weapons kata are separate from the empty hand kata, many of which are the same ones we do. He may have just meant that doing weapons kata will help and supplement your empty hand kata, and I agree with that.

He was teaching a sai kata and demonstrated how certain strikes with the sai actually were used to practice punches as well as the blocks for locks and throws.

:asian:

 

[Gene Williams]

Many of the weapons stances and hand techniques presuppose some knowledge of karate. I think it would be a lot harder to go from weapons to karate than the other way around.

 

[arnisador]

Yes, I think the Karate helps more with the Kubudo at first than the other way around. Just learning the common stances, for example, is easier without the weapon, I feel.

But at the higher level, I can also see where punching with a sai or tonfa could help one's Karate. I think this must be what Mr. Oyata was referring to--for those with more experience.

 

[Gene Williams]

Well, I wasn't there, so I don't know. Generally speaking, weapons change a lot of things. Your focus is on the striking surface of the weapon (mono uchi) and not the same as punching. The weapon itself is hard or sharp and so you do not have to strike or punch with the same type of focus as in punching. You need less power to injure or disable your opponent, as well. As a rule, kobudo stances do not have to be as deep, as you do not need the same foundation for weapons use as you need for punching or kicking. Distancing is different, which also changes how you focus. Now, with sai, tonfa, and nunchaku, many of the locks and traps are the same as empty handed. The older weapons kata are just that...weapons kata. The focus is on the weapon. Very few kicks, very few punches. Lots of techniques for when someone grabs the weapon or tries to disarm you. I think karate students who try to import weapons techniques into empty hand kata, most of the time, are barking up the wrong tree.