Kali Escrima or Krav Maga?

[Glycerine0160]

I take JKD/Kali/Silat mixture classes.

I don't know anything on krav maga but Kali definitely will definitely offer you more overtime.

This guy Oscar comes in and teaches us more of the filipino arts in a different fashions on Tuesdays. He is very fluid. He tells us never to commit cause you give yourself away. You should see him mess around. He can find stabilization in any position. He is a very dirty, aggressive fighter. He will not hesitate to use your ears, hairs, eyes to win the bout if it comes in close range. He manipultes you from any position.

One of the most interesting stories he was telling me of was when he was sparring against a guy in preying mantis style. (this seems to be more of the silat side, but we interchange them so much as if they were one.)
And he had the guy in one of the leg lock positions of silat (which allow for easy take downs by just using your leg against his legs in the proper positioning) But the opponent simply changed the angle of his leg in a easy manner which nullified his ability to use the silat leg lock. This instructor told me he then quickly countered by realigning the leg lock again and took his opponenet down.

Pretty much what I have taken from the filipino martial arts is that they are very adapatable. Kali is really focused on the availability of hits which is great. You cannot expect to take the battle too far (particularlly with grappling/take downs) if you have not loosened them up with hits.

Also, (i've only been training a year) but I used to not really cherish the weapon aspect of kali. But I read on these forums some point a poster was making.

In summnation it was to the extent of, "humans have been using weapons to survive throughout their existence. Why stop now? You use what is to your advantage." And I can tell you now, I've got into a few close encounters, each which invovled multiple opponents and could/should of invovled weapons. Weapon training is so important. It gives you a lot more confidence to get into a road rage situation and know you have a kali stick in your car.


A last, it all comes down to practice. Some people go home and practice their arts and others don't. It is what draws the casual martial artists to the more zealous ones. Perhaps if you see yourself as a more casual user (you can see how devoted you have been to other things in your life) then Krav Maga may in fact be a better choice. But if you want something you want to put a little of devotion and see the fruits of your labor over time, go with Kali.

 

[OCman44]

I take JKD/Kali/Silat mixture classes.

I don't know anything on krav maga but Kali definitely will definitely offer you more overtime.

This guy Oscar comes in and teaches us more of the filipino arts in a different fashions on Tuesdays. He is very fluid. He tells us never to commit cause you give yourself away. You should see him mess around. He can find stabilization in any position. He is a very dirty, aggressive fighter. He will not hesitate to use your ears, hairs, eyes to win the bout if it comes in close range. He manipultes you from any position.

One of the most interesting stories he was telling me of was when he was sparring against a guy in preying mantis style. (this seems to be more of the silat side, but we interchange them so much as if they were one.)
And he had the guy in one of the leg lock positions of silat (which allow for easy take downs by just using your leg against his legs in the proper positioning) But the opponent simply changed the angle of his leg in a easy manner which nullified his ability to use the silat leg lock. This instructor told me he then quickly countered by realigning the leg lock again and took his opponenet down.

Pretty much what I have taken from the filipino martial arts is that they are very adapatable. Kali is really focused on the availability of hits which is great. You cannot expect to take the battle too far (particularlly with grappling/take downs) if you have not loosened them up with hits.

Also, (i've only been training a year) but I used to not really cherish the weapon aspect of kali. But I read on these forums some point a poster was making.

In summnation it was to the extent of, "humans have been using weapons to survive throughout their existence. Why stop now? You use what is to your advantage." And I can tell you now, I've got into a few close encounters, each which invovled multiple opponents and could/should of invovled weapons. Weapon training is so important. It gives you a lot more confidence to get into a road rage situation and know you have a kali stick in your car.


A last, it all comes down to practice. Some people go home and practice their arts and others don't. It is what draws the casual martial artists to the more zealous ones. Perhaps if you see yourself as a more casual user (you can see how devoted you have been to other things in your life) then Krav Maga may in fact be a better choice. But if you want something you want to put a little of devotion and see the fruits of your labor over time, go with Kali.

Awesome stories appreciate all the good info you just gave me .

At the end of your post you say over time, you'd see the fruits of your labor with kali. Do you mean more beneficial to real world self defense? is that what your meaning?

 

[GBlues]

Here's the deal man, and really it comes down to this. IF you could train with Bruce Lee today would you? Knowing what you know about Bruce Lee would you even be on this forum asking these questions? OR WOULD YOU BE THERE NOW? I'll tell your right now, I would be training with him right now, if I could. Unfortunately he's dead, and died before I was born,but that's it for me. The closest thing to learning from Bruce Lee is Dan Inosanto in my opinion. In my mind that is the question. Bruce Lee or Krav Maga, I'd choose the the third. The guy Bruce Lee taught, and was one of his greatest students Dan Inosanto. I mean how can you not?:erg:

 

[Glycerine0160]

Awesome stories appreciate all the good info you just gave me .

At the end of your post you say over time, you'd see the fruits of your labor with kali. Do you mean more beneficial to real world self defense? is that what your meaning?

well, take jkd for example. Although I'm going out on a limb saying this, I imagine JKD is more constructed than Krav Maga although i know nothing about it. The beauty of arts like kali and silat is that they tie into it. And that guy Oscar who comes in knows a lot more about fluidity than are main sifu. I'm not saying our sifu isn't amazing at what he does, but he does not have that same edge Oscar has who was born and learned in the philipines. I just think the filipino arts will offer you a wider range of tools and will offer more for your mind to grasp than something simple and efficient like Krav Maga.

 

[OCman44]

Hey everyone again,

Been awhile but I wanted to clarify something that Ive actually been meaning to ask.

I know Ive asked over an over how Kali Escrima is for self defense but what im wondering is how it is in a street fight? I feel that self defense and a street fight are a little different but I may be wrong.

For those of you with experience in Escrima, if you have used Kali in a street fight how successful were you in using what you've learned and practiced?

Hope to hear back from you guys as all of you are very informative and I appreciate every post you guys reply with.

Thanks

 

[scarphe]

Hey everyone again,

Been awhile but I wanted to clarify something that Ive actually been meaning to ask.

I know Ive asked over an over how Kali Escrima is for self defense but what im wondering is how it is in a street fight? I feel that self defense and a street fight are a little different but I may be wrong.

For those of you with experience in Escrima, if you have used Kali in a street fight how successful were you in using what you've learned and practiced?

Hope to hear back from you guys as all of you are very informative and I appreciate every post you guys reply with.

Thanks

maybe you clould clarify the issue, what do yu think is the difference between SD and a street fight?
some will disagree but i fail to see a difference.

 

[arnisador]

I've used it in self-defense during an attempted mugging on a street (right in front of the RI state capitol building, actually). It's good, in part because of the weapon sensitivity it develops!

 

[OCman44]

maybe you clould clarify the issue, what do yu think is the difference between SD and a street fight?
some will disagree but i fail to see a difference.

Good point, I dont know why I see a difference if any at all. Honestly I thought they were pretty much the same thing but Ive been reading and some ppl have a different opinion on self defense and a street fight.

You figure if you get into a fight or someone mugs you for instance with Arnisador above me made a post, your defending yourself so it sorta makes no sense to ask the question that I did haha oh well.

Thanks Arnisador for giving me a clip of your experience with kali in a self defense situation what was the outcome? if I may ask

 

[arnisador]

I'm still here! Long story--maybe another time. Basically three guys jumped me two weeks before my black belt test and I was able to stay away from them and get in a few hits. One pulled a knife and used; I blocked it once, then extricated myself. I'll say this: When Remy Presas heard the story at the Buffalo camp in 1989, he gave me my black belt right there--he waived the lakan test I had been planning to take.

 

[OCman44]

I'm still here! Long story--maybe another time. Basically three guys jumped me two weeks before my black belt test and I was able to stay away from them and get in a few hits. One pulled a knife and used; I blocked it once, then extricated myself. I'll say this: When Remy Presas heard the story at the Buffalo camp in 1989, he gave me my black belt right there--he waived the lakan test I had been planning to take.

Awesome stuff

Thanks for sharing that. Good to hear that this stuff works

 

[Blindside]

Awesome stuff

Thanks for sharing that. Good to hear that this stuff works

I think that you seeking out online verification of "if this stuff works" is a pretty flawed premise, and no matter what the results of your survey, the results of your training are entirely dependent on your ability and your instructor. Your local Kali instructor might be a video trained weenie barely capable of lifting a stick or the KMer is a weekend seminar certified karateka who has visions of being a commando.

Visit the schools, make your determination based on your perceived quality of students and your interaction with the instructor. Don't sign any long-term contracts, then re-evaluate in 3 months.

 

[OCman44]

I think that you seeking out online verification of "if this stuff works" is a pretty flawed premise, and no matter what the results of your survey, the results of your training are entirely dependent on your ability and your instructor. Your local Kali instructor might be a video trained weenie barely capable of lifting a stick or the KMer is a weekend seminar certified karateka who has visions of being a commando.

Visit the schools, make your determination based on your perceived quality of students and your interaction with the instructor. Don't sign any long-term contracts, then re-evaluate in 3 months.

I understand this and appreciate it very much.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I have the OC kickboxing school which the head Kali Instructor there is trained by and in the Inosanto/lacoste systems.
I also have the Inosanto Academy somewhat close, A little drive but it would more than likely be worth every penny.

However I havnt heard much about the OC kickboxing and how good their instructor is so I probably should check the place out since its closer then the Inosanto academy.

 

[JBrainard]

Heya everyone,

Its been awhile since I last posted but Ive still been researching which self defense art to take. I recently stumbled upon Krav Maga which I heard is a great self defense program.

Im not asking which is best because they are all good in their own unique ways but of the two which would be better for more realistic self defense situations?

Ive got a couple great schools nearby for both. For kali Ive got Inosanto Academy and OC kickboxing(Inosanto Kali)
As for Krav Ive gotta look into where its at nearby but I do know there are some places.

I love Kali because of its fluidity and nature of training with weapons and moving to empty hand. Ive been told that Kali is amazing in real life situations but Im just hoping to get some more responses on that from you guys - the community. I learned about Kali from the Bourne movies. I know its a little far fetched in the movies but how it looked was awesome and got me into researching it more. Question though - Someone that trains in Kali for years(im assuming Bournes character did for years as well), Could someone be somewhat as effective as he was? Im not saying the stuff he did was realistic but how effective he was at rendering his opponents unconscious. Could that be possible with someone whos trained in Kali for years?

Krav more looks sorta choppy in its techniques.

I haven't read this entire thread so bear with me if someone has already said what I am about to. Arnis/Kali and KM are both great systems for self defence. And if you are interested in weapons, keep an eye out for KM school that teaches knife (they're out there). I personally take Arnis because I believe it is (one of) the most complete martial arts systems out there. But, truth be told, I would train in both Arnis and KM if I could afford it.

 

[OCman44]

I haven't read this entire thread so bear with me if someone has already said what I am about to. Arnis/Kali and KM are both great systems for self defence. And if you are interested in weapons, keep an eye out for KM school that teaches knife (they're out there). I personally take Arnis because I believe it is (one of) the most complete martial arts systems out there. But, truth be told, I would train in both Arnis and KM if I could afford it.

I appreciate your insight! However you mention how if im interested in weapons to check out KM that teaches knife. Isnt Kali a weapon based system so wouldnt it be as good if not better in its training or more so suited for weapon training? or am I wrong?

 

[JBrainard]

I appreciate your insight! However you mention how if im interested in weapons to check out KM that teaches knife. Isnt Kali a weapon based system so wouldnt it be as good if not better in its training or more so suited for weapon training? or am I wrong?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If you want to train in the real life application of weapons (especially edged weapons) along with your empty hand techniques, Arnis/Kali is the definite way to go. I was just saying that if you go the KM route, try to find a school that teaches knife, even if you have no interest in carrying a knife. I'm a firm believer that if you know how to use a weapon, you will be much better at defending against a weapon.
Hope that cleared things up.

 

[OCman44]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If you want to train in the real life application of weapons (especially edged weapons) along with your empty hand techniques, Arnis/Kali is the definite way to go. I was just saying that if you go the KM route, try to find a school that teaches knife, even if you have no interest in carrying a knife. I'm a firm believer that if you know how to use a weapon, you will be much better at defending against a weapon.
Hope that cleared things up.

Thanks Brainard for that tidbit.

And I agree with your saying that if you know how to use a weapon, youll be much better at defending against one. Good stuff

Thanks bud!

 

[babauzabu]

Hi. I really like this thread.
Since I had some exposure to both Krav Maga and FMA I would like to say somethings about some points disscused on this thread:
1. the difference between KM and FMA.
2. what should you choose if you had to choose between the two.
3. the difference between "street fight" and self defence.
4. recommending to study Dan Inosanto JKD for FMA (?).

First a little about my experience - I have learned Krav Maga when I was serving in the Israely Army, mostly for breaking from holds, control and takedowns because of the nature of my job back then. After the army I worked in court house secuity where I was trained much more intensly in Krav Maga again mostly for control and also weapon defence dissarming and breaking from weapon holds. That was about 8 years ago. Now for the last year and a half I am learning an RBMA which is mostly based on FMA and indonesian stuff. Our main objective is the FMA aproach to knife and knife defence but of course we also train in stick and empty hand. Now:

1. The difference:
I am writing this since it bothers me to see people say things like "I dont really know what Krav Maga is but I think FMA is better". That is really not a logical structue for a sentence regardless of the content. Anyway,
in my opinion KM and FMA are one of the most same minded systems that exist when you look at their agendas - destilling techniques from itself and other systems and approaches to fight and SD that are reallity based and proven through testing experinment and blood. But, while KM is a scenario-technique based system, FMA is a skill based system that developes principles of movement rather than specific definite reactions to specific situations. In practice the difference is in the methodology of training - KM have a great way of putting you in a specific mind frame in a specific context and working in high adrenal levels. But as mentioned here before you might get chopy or even stuck when some technique doesnt put you where you thought youll be. This is where the FMA comes into picture - the flow and eficiancy of FMA is situation free and gives you the ability to go about your thing even when you encounter obstacles. Moreover I would say a KM pactitioner will feel a higher level of confidence since he can recognize specific situations and have in stock a specific reaction (kind of like have a bullet ready in the chamber), while a FMA practitioner will have a higher level of competence regardless of the way he feels about it.
Which mental frame is more important ? both are.

2. What than should you choose? I think the two compliment each other - the Krav Maga with its methodology and confidence it gives to the practitioner, and FMA with the increadible flow and adaptability. Indeed today Krav Maga has already dicovered the FMA and you could see techniques from FMA expressed in most leading KM schools. I imagine the oposite will be seen more and more with American FMA schools that will adoped some of training methodology of KM to what they do.
I imagine that a proper real marriage - a filipino-krav-maga movement might be seen aswell.
I personally began with krav maga, and when i wanted to go back to study MA I felt there was something missing there - something I found in FMA ( a real sence of competence and eficiant flow). However these days Im considering going back to KM while still remaining in FMA - just so I could practice my FMA within the KM training inviroment.
To you a would suggest to studdy FMA for 6 to 12 months and then experiment with KM, just to enhace the sence of realism in what you do.


3. The difference between street fight and self defence - when two people step outside a pub to fight its like UFC or another type of combative sport in the sence that both sides have the same role - fighters, and they check to see who is the fittest. in self defence there are to totally different roles: the attacker is the surprising ambushing hunter and the self defendor is in the role of surprised victim. Krav Maga is great for helping you flip the mentallity of the situation, and change roles very quickly, and FMA gives you the tools to do so - it gives you a wider range of tools to attack while defending (active defence as opposed to passive defence) to achive the same. Both systems do not shine as well in the street/sport fight type of situation - this is where muay thai, boxing and MMA are more advised.

4. Dan Inosanto JKD for learning FMA? - yes Inosanto is a legend but what he teaches is JKD not FMA. There is a lot of FMA in Inosantos JKD but the agenda there is different than that you will find in SD schools or most american FMA schools. JKD is splattered across so many areas and so many diciplines it goes way beyond the core of skills needed for RBMA. They have muay thay, BJJ, win chun, and much more - not that its bad just that it takes a several more life times than the average modern person might have. You have to decide what you want and what is your time frame.

And that was my 2 cents,
Hope you find something usefull in this,
and have fun

 

[unladylikedefnse]

Why not both?

Heya everyone,

Its been awhile since I last posted but Ive still been researching which self defense art to take. I recently stumbled upon Krav Maga which I heard is a great self defense program.

Im not asking which is best because they are all good in their own unique ways but of the two which would be better for more realistic self defense situations?

Ive got a couple great schools nearby for both. For kali Ive got Inosanto Academy and OC kickboxing(Inosanto Kali)
As for Krav Ive gotta look into where its at nearby but I do know there are some places.

I love Kali because of its fluidity and nature of training with weapons and moving to empty hand. Ive been told that Kali is amazing in real life situations but Im just hoping to get some more responses on that from you guys - the community. I learned about Kali from the Bourne movies. I know its a little far fetched in the movies but how it looked was awesome and got me into researching it more. Question though - Someone that trains in Kali for years(im assuming Bournes character did for years as well), Could someone be somewhat as effective as he was? Im not saying the stuff he did was realistic but how effective he was at rendering his opponents unconscious. Could that be possible with someone whos trained in Kali for years?

Krav more looks sorta choppy in its techniques.

 

[jasonb]

http://www.comparestyles.com has a DVD where Krav Maga is compared side by side with Kali, plus also Wing Chun and another "real fighting" art, FastDefense. They compare the arts showing their responses to common attacks. They do the defense and then explain why they do what they do.

 

[Guvnor]

Try them and see for yourself. The Inosanto Academy is a great resource to have on your door step.