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Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #21
Originally posted by Klondike93
After trying the kenpo techniques, try some systema ones to see how well they work. Good luck, comrade
:asian:
Yeah, get shot at point blank range a lot!
Yeah, get shot at point blank range a lot!
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
Gou,
I have a question. Does the prove your "Keepin' the Faith?" or losing it?
:burp:
I have a question. Does the prove your "Keepin' the Faith?" or losing it?
:burp:
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GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #24
Da! I fully expect to use the techniques I have learned for dealing with heavy strikes from Systema.
Gou does have an advantage too... I'm using a Tippman with a stock barrel....they suck on accuracy...then again, it is point blank.
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GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #26
I have spoken with Huk Planas who will be at the camp and has agreed to help me learn the technique properly as it was originally done and how it should be done. His participation was set with the warning that Kaith knows that I am going to do something.
This will make a big difference and I can see why. If someone is not prepared for something to happen, the chances that he will react with shooting are less than someone who is ready to shoot anyway. I assume the techs are not designed with the idea that the person holding the gun is going to actually shoot but more threaten to shoot? I am not sure.
So here is what it looks like. I have agreed to try the Kenpo Gun techniques with Kaith using a paintball gun. I will not break his arm. Poke his eyes out. Slap him in the skull, break his arm, or otherwise try to maim him.
This will be simply be to see how a paintball gun can be evaded using set Kenpo techniques. Although some of the said techniques might require that I stike Kaith in some manner. We'll try and pad him up so that I don't hurt him. As for me, we'll get some padding on me and the rest is up to me to try and not hurt too much. Proper safety equipment will be worn in respect to the gun such as helments and goggles etc. (I think Kaith has them)
Then we will analyze the data and see if I was dead or able to evade enough so that if I chose to I could have killed Kaith. Which is what we all know I would do even though I like him. (Don't pull a gun on me ya beeeyatch!)
As for video, we might get it after a few tries etc. I am unsure if I want this to get out for one reason. If you don't come to the camp you don't get to see it. Live is always better. However we will look at what footage we have and after a signifigant amount of time we will release approved portions of it. Sure this sounds like a cop out but I don't care. I'm the one getting shot at. I'm doing this to see what the results might be but also get people to come to the camp.
This will make a big difference and I can see why. If someone is not prepared for something to happen, the chances that he will react with shooting are less than someone who is ready to shoot anyway. I assume the techs are not designed with the idea that the person holding the gun is going to actually shoot but more threaten to shoot? I am not sure.
So here is what it looks like. I have agreed to try the Kenpo Gun techniques with Kaith using a paintball gun. I will not break his arm. Poke his eyes out. Slap him in the skull, break his arm, or otherwise try to maim him.
This will be simply be to see how a paintball gun can be evaded using set Kenpo techniques. Although some of the said techniques might require that I stike Kaith in some manner. We'll try and pad him up so that I don't hurt him. As for me, we'll get some padding on me and the rest is up to me to try and not hurt too much. Proper safety equipment will be worn in respect to the gun such as helments and goggles etc. (I think Kaith has them)
Then we will analyze the data and see if I was dead or able to evade enough so that if I chose to I could have killed Kaith. Which is what we all know I would do even though I like him. (Don't pull a gun on me ya beeeyatch!)
As for video, we might get it after a few tries etc. I am unsure if I want this to get out for one reason. If you don't come to the camp you don't get to see it. Live is always better. However we will look at what footage we have and after a signifigant amount of time we will release approved portions of it. Sure this sounds like a cop out but I don't care. I'm the one getting shot at. I'm doing this to see what the results might be but also get people to come to the camp.
Baoquan
Blue Belt
Comon!! Some of us have a severe geographic disadvantage in the "You dont get to see it if you don't come to the camp!" proviso...
Kaith and Gou,
Remember, you should be able to crank the velocity of the marker down quite a ways so as not to risk hurting Gou too much. Most paintball fields require the markers to be set around 250 - 300fps. You probably won't be able to measure the speed at the camp, but Kaith can crank the velocity knob down a bit. This way, if the technique is tried and Gou is shot, you can determine whether or not to increase the muzzle velocity based on how painful the shot is or not.
Cthulhu
Remember, you should be able to crank the velocity of the marker down quite a ways so as not to risk hurting Gou too much. Most paintball fields require the markers to be set around 250 - 300fps. You probably won't be able to measure the speed at the camp, but Kaith can crank the velocity knob down a bit. This way, if the technique is tried and Gou is shot, you can determine whether or not to increase the muzzle velocity based on how painful the shot is or not.
Cthulhu
or by the size of the hole in his side.
Hmm...now was that to the right for softer, or to the left? Hmmm..
Seriously, this is still dangerous, so we're gonna take every precaution we can.
Hmm...now was that to the right for softer, or to the left? Hmmm..
Seriously, this is still dangerous, so we're gonna take every precaution we can.
What's the argument against starting with a squirt gun with colored water that'll easily show up on him, then working your way up? A point blank paintball gun will leave a heck of a bruise, and maybe more. What if he gets going partway and it fires into his open mouth or into his adam's apple?
I think that GouRonin has a good point about intent. Someone who intends to shoot you will presumably just do iot, unles it's aTV show. If he holds you at gunpoint, his intention is to not shoot you. For off-the-street kidnappings at least I believe it's over 90% likely that if you just walk away, they will not shoot.
That's right. If someone comes up to you, waves a gun, and says "Get in the car", using the self-defense technique of saying "No" and walking away will work 90+% of the time. I doubt that the Kenpo gun techniques will beat that average (even augmented by Systema)--no techniques would. They'd raise the level even further and could make things worse.
It's still an interesting experiemnt and I'm curious to see what happens, but there are lots of realism issues here.
Mind you, I have no objection to GouRonin being shot at.
I think that GouRonin has a good point about intent. Someone who intends to shoot you will presumably just do iot, unles it's aTV show. If he holds you at gunpoint, his intention is to not shoot you. For off-the-street kidnappings at least I believe it's over 90% likely that if you just walk away, they will not shoot.
That's right. If someone comes up to you, waves a gun, and says "Get in the car", using the self-defense technique of saying "No" and walking away will work 90+% of the time. I doubt that the Kenpo gun techniques will beat that average (even augmented by Systema)--no techniques would. They'd raise the level even further and could make things worse.
It's still an interesting experiemnt and I'm curious to see what happens, but there are lots of realism issues here.
Mind you, I have no objection to GouRonin being shot at.
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KenpoGirl
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #31
That Gou's short a few rounds!!!
I think it will be a very interesting experiment. I regret I won't be able to see it first hand this year.
One piece of advice, find some neck protections as well, a chest guard and helmet isn't going to protect the neck very much wouldn't want Gou to deflect anything and end up with a paint ball bouncing off his neck causing who knows what kind of injury.
Besides, I need him in good shape so I can do my best to beat up on him when our friend opens his school the following week.:rofl:
dot
:asian:
I think it will be a very interesting experiment. I regret I won't be able to see it first hand this year.
One piece of advice, find some neck protections as well, a chest guard and helmet isn't going to protect the neck very much wouldn't want Gou to deflect anything and end up with a paint ball bouncing off his neck causing who knows what kind of injury.
Besides, I need him in good shape so I can do my best to beat up on him when our friend opens his school the following week.:rofl:
dot
:asian:
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IFAJKD
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #32
This sounds fun. I have to admit I am curious about the techniques but can offer some things maybe....
1: full face helmets are good to use and provide protection. They are cheap and have only one flaw, should the paintball go under the helmet or in some cases under the visor it can damage the eye badly. seen it. Not good
2. at cranked velosity you will have more accurate shots and realistic hit time. Things change in both these areas when turned down but it does hurt. You will live. Brusiing is part of the game. No biggy. Clothing helps but it will still sting a bit.
3. I may have a pistol I could send that would be more realistic. I can check into getting it or if you would like I have used real 9mm with soft round training markers for more realistic senarios.
I really would like to see this video and ask to check egos and send some out. I am not kenpo person so I wouldn't be at the camp but.......
Hey I understand if this is the "secret stuff" :rofl:
Have fun.
1: full face helmets are good to use and provide protection. They are cheap and have only one flaw, should the paintball go under the helmet or in some cases under the visor it can damage the eye badly. seen it. Not good
2. at cranked velosity you will have more accurate shots and realistic hit time. Things change in both these areas when turned down but it does hurt. You will live. Brusiing is part of the game. No biggy. Clothing helps but it will still sting a bit.
3. I may have a pistol I could send that would be more realistic. I can check into getting it or if you would like I have used real 9mm with soft round training markers for more realistic senarios.
I really would like to see this video and ask to check egos and send some out. I am not kenpo person so I wouldn't be at the camp but.......
Hey I understand if this is the "secret stuff" :rofl:
Have fun.
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GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #33
First of all. If anyone has any gun techs in their system, please e-mail them to Kaith and maybe we'll try them too.
Baoquan - We'll release some video of it in time. Don't worry. I just want to make sure I look good in it and my hair isn't messed up.
Arnisador - I agree with the psychological aspects you stated. Very well put. As for the squirt gun, well...it's just not as fun.
Dot - I can't believe you are not going to the camp. I shall lay beatings on you daily until at least January of 2003 now because of this.
IFAJKD - if you send a gun to use we'll send you footage. Sounds fair to me. You participated in a manner of speaking.
Baoquan - We'll release some video of it in time. Don't worry. I just want to make sure I look good in it and my hair isn't messed up.
Arnisador - I agree with the psychological aspects you stated. Very well put. As for the squirt gun, well...it's just not as fun.
Dot - I can't believe you are not going to the camp. I shall lay beatings on you daily until at least January of 2003 now because of this.
IFAJKD - if you send a gun to use we'll send you footage. Sounds fair to me. You participated in a manner of speaking.
Baoquan
Blue Belt
Saweeeet.
Cheers,
Bao.
PS...i used to work video post-production....good editing and after-effects can do wonders..... for a price. :EG:
Cheers,
Bao.
PS...i used to work video post-production....good editing and after-effects can do wonders..... for a price. :EG:
LOL. biggest headaches gonna be getting the feed off my camcorder...bloody USB hookup drops frames. >_<
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
Comrade Gou! Show those Yankee Imperialist Dogs and their "Alpha Bit's of Motion" they can't spell! Take there puffery and great claims and show them the that Russia is not to be tampered with! Do it for the Glory of the !Rodina!!!!
Ahem, sorry kiddies, just finished watching K-19 and couldn't resist. At least my accent was better then Fords!
Ahem, sorry kiddies, just finished watching K-19 and couldn't resist. At least my accent was better then Fords!
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #37
Since Kaith will definitely know a move is coming, he has an
advantage. So I suggest a walk ... 20ft, 30ft, whatever. Gou
walks this path with Kaith holding the pistol to his head (as the
tech prescribes, correct?) over and over again, and on his own
whim, he gets to defend. This kind of levels the playing ground
a bit, since Kaith won't know WHEN the tech is coming, only that
it WILL come. Whatcha think?
advantage. So I suggest a walk ... 20ft, 30ft, whatever. Gou
walks this path with Kaith holding the pistol to his head (as the
tech prescribes, correct?) over and over again, and on his own
whim, he gets to defend. This kind of levels the playing ground
a bit, since Kaith won't know WHEN the tech is coming, only that
it WILL come. Whatcha think?
Not a bad idea, Kirk. It seems reasonable enough -- the guy with the gun in his back goes along and does what the gunman says, then when he thinks he can take the gunman by surprise with his disarming technique, he goes for it. I suppose they could try it both ways and see what happens.
The water gun idea would work, too, but I suspect it's not fast enough. Plus the fact that you can see the stream of water coming out of it gives the defender a visual on the line of fire. I don't know if that would be an advantage in this case, but you're certainly not going to be able to see and watch a real bullet coming out of a gun. The paintball gun is probably more realistic.
And just since others said it, I also agree that all appropriate safety precautions should be taken. I'm sure GouRonin and Kaith will do so. After all, it's an experiment to test techniques; we don't want anyone getting seriously injured in the process.
The water gun idea would work, too, but I suspect it's not fast enough. Plus the fact that you can see the stream of water coming out of it gives the defender a visual on the line of fire. I don't know if that would be an advantage in this case, but you're certainly not going to be able to see and watch a real bullet coming out of a gun. The paintball gun is probably more realistic.
And just since others said it, I also agree that all appropriate safety precautions should be taken. I'm sure GouRonin and Kaith will do so. After all, it's an experiment to test techniques; we don't want anyone getting seriously injured in the process.
I agree, but I don't see the harm in working one's way up from there.
I agree that Kirk's idea seems a good way to address some of the psychological/intent issues.
The walk idea is good..adds to the 'when' part. I will be aiming for the back, not the head. Safer.
We will be doing the gun from the rear. Others are a maybe, based on a number of factors.
I dont know if Gous done any paintballing, but if he hasn't, I'll probably plug him once in the leg from 10 paces so he's got a heads up on what to expect. We're going in to this as friends, I wanna come out the same way, ya know/
We will be doing the gun from the rear. Others are a maybe, based on a number of factors.
I dont know if Gous done any paintballing, but if he hasn't, I'll probably plug him once in the leg from 10 paces so he's got a heads up on what to expect. We're going in to this as friends, I wanna come out the same way, ya know/
