Just started Karate and I have a starter question

Discussion in 'Karate' started by MosheBiton, Aug 10, 2018.

Tags:
  1. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi everyone,

    My name is Moshe, I've started practicing Karate with a teacher two month ago.

    I have a test on Kata Kihon in few weeks, which is pretty easy but I do not understand one thing - how do you determine the direction you turn. I will explain:

    The first move in the kata is downward defense and you do it after taking a 90 degree turn from the left, why not 270 degrees from the right? I know that specifically on this move, it's pretty obvious but on the 17th move, it isn't.

    Thank you,
    Moshe B.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pdg

    pdg Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    123
    The moves are determined by the kata, for whatever reason during it's creation.

    Direction of turn (or anything else) is to do with whatever the person who made the kata felt gave the best flow, transition or aesthetics.

    To be honest, this is the sort of thing your teacher should be teaching - especially so if you're being tested based on these things.
     
  3. pdg

    pdg Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    430
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Oh, but as a very general thing with many exceptions - the direction is led by the following technique.

    I don't know the kata (not a karate person) but I'd lay money on the transition from position 16 to 17 being a 270° turn.



    Edit: looking closer at the image, there's even an arrow showing foot movement...
     
  4. Michele123

    Michele123 Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    83
    16 to 17 should be a long turn over your left shoulder. In most katas (at least in Shutokan) you always turn toward the center of your kata. So if you can picture the image your feet draw while you perform your kata, find the middle spot and when you turn, you should always turn with your front passing that spot.

    In this kata, you are basically follow a capital “I” so facing the center of the letter is the way you turn.

    Clear as mud?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,252
    Likes Received:
    751
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    New York
    Try the block that youre supposed to do there turning the other way...its not particularly effective. And one of the key aspects of that kata is the continuous repitition of the two blocks.
     
  6. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Geelong, Victoria, Australia
    G'day Moshe, welcome to the forum!

    I'm not too sure I understand the question sorry... do you mean why is there the 270 degree turn at certain points, but 90 degrees at the start? Hard to say exactly, but it's a basic kata designed to teach basic movement patterns, all in forward stance. It's good they have that transition. And while it's a tricky turn the 270 degree one, it helps to teach your body to stay upright with good posture, and maintain your centre point so to speak whilst turning.

    And awesome you've started karate, let us know how you go :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I think I get it. It's the only explanation that makes sense. So, to recap, I should look at the "symbol" the kata creates and mark the middle of it, then the turns should be towards that middle.
     
  8. Michele123

    Michele123 Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Basically, yes. At least that’s how it is in Shutokan.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Even if it meant to teach the basics, it was designed in someway, and I find it very hard to believe that it was designed without any thought. There are many other ways of teaching the basic that in my opinion, are better than the Kihon but they chose it anyway, which means, it should follow the other Katas construction. "MICHELE123" gave a reasonable explanation; I checked a few Katas and it really works.
     
  10. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I'm not sure what Karate style I'm learning; I'll check it in the next lesson. Your explanation works well for our Katas, Thanks:)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    25,318
    Likes Received:
    3,870
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    How long have you been training karate to come to this conclusion? Oh that's right …………….


    Why would you start learning karate without knowing what style it is? I'm sorry that sounds harsh but the style is important in many ways. Knowing the history, the type of style it is informs your training, how can you train something you know nothing about?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,252
    Likes Received:
    751
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    New York
    Because not everyone cares. If youre just doing it for fun, who cares where it comes from? I would bet the place is just called 'Joe's karate' or something similar
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    25,318
    Likes Received:
    3,870
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England

    If they don't care they will make poor students. Imagine coming into train just 'anything' and finding out you are in full contact Gojo Ryu or that being a small person you would have done better in Wado Ryu rather than Shotokan and vice versa.
    If it's called 'Joe's karate' and nothing else, the instructor hasn't explained anything about the style then that is a big red light, whether you are 'just doing it for fun' or not.

    It's much more fun ( and safer) if you actually go to a proper karate school.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Geelong, Victoria, Australia
    Ah yep, it does have that "I" or sideways "H" pattern, and some say it was designed that way so that it ends in the same spot, and also for symmetry (training both sides of the body, and it's mostly symmetrical). Alot of other katas do use this pattern, but not all of them. But alot do work alot of balance/symmetry in them.

    I wasn't sure of the question sorry bud :)
     
  15. now disabled

    now disabled 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I do not want to sound like the kill joy in this (if I do it unintentional)

    I do get why you want to know all students who start in martial arts want to run before they even can crawl let alone walk ...again not being nasty ... but stick with it as the longer you do the more things will make sense and then onve you have reached a certain level then start to question ...to me then you will have to base to question from, gain the base then ask the questions why as at the bottom it could be viewed more as well arrogance (I am not saying you are btw) and even being impertinent ...just a thought and not a crit of you personally
     
  16. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I didn't have a choice... There is only one school of karate in my area...

    About what you said of me being newbie - I may have just started Karate, but I do know one thing or two about studying. Karate hasn't changed even though the science about the brain, specifically, about how human learn, changed a lot recently. So, I prefer not to conclude that the Katas are built without any link to the other Katas.

    * Just so we are on the same page; my only indication of Karate study is my school. As of now, I don't have broader knowlege than this.
     
  17. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I totally understand you but I do prefer to know what I am doing. It may allow me to study Karate much faster. In the class, I do follow my teacher and his method of teaching.
     
  18. MosheBiton

    MosheBiton White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    The place is run by Yoel Be Harush:
    יואל בן הרוש - אומנויות לחימה (use google translate). He is 6th Dan and 5 times Israeli Champion.

    I study to learn how to defend my self.
     
  19. now disabled

    now disabled 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43

    There is no fast track my friend and at the start trying go deeper can be counter productive
     
  20. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    1,746
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Location:
    In the dojo
    A couple of things to help along a new student...

    The kata pictured is most commonly known as Taikyoku 1/Shodan/Sono Ichi (all different ways of numbering it number 1). Taikyoku can be translated as “taking the overview.”

    It is less commonly know as Kihon kata, although that name is somewhat popular and definitely not obscure. Kihon means basics or fundamentals. So it’s translated as “basic kata” or “fundamental kata.”

    Keeping both of those names in mind, it becomes apparent that the kata is typically taught to beginners to introduce them to kata and help teach more advanced kata easier once that kata has been performed successfully and consistently.

    What the movements mean and why those movements were put in there to begin with has no definitive answer. There are no books, videos, etc. by the developers of this and every other kata that predates it telling us what, why, and how with any depth at all. So most people have to reverse engineer kata and come up with functional interpretations (bunkai).

    Regarding why the turns are 90 degrees, 180 degrees, and 270 degrees, IMO it’s because your opponent will start at different places relative to you, and/or you’re moving them to different places. If you’re really interested in why, here’s a pretty good intro video. It’s not the exact kata you’re asking about, but it’s quite similar.


    Different schools have different interpretations and reasons for doing kata. Some do them as simply agility exercises, some do them solely for competition or rank advancement, some do them as a tool from which all of their techniques, strategy, etc. come from them. And everywhere in between. The best advice I have and everyone else here has had is listen to your teacher. He/she should be able to tell you why they do kata.

    You’ve just started, so don’t get too hung up on anything. Your teacher probably won’t get too in depth with explanations simply because a lot of it will go over your head at this point.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page