Junior BlackBelts

[phlaw]

Wanted to start a new topic, not sure if this has been discussed?

What are people's thoughts on the "Junior Blackbelt" I know some systems use it and others don't.

Also, for systems who use it, do you feel if someone is a 2nd or 3rd dan junior blackbelt and they reach the age for Adult BlackBelt that they should automaticall become an adult 2nd or 3rd dan, or should they have to start at 1st dan as an adult.

I know some systems do it different ways, just trying to get opinons.

Personally, I like the junior blackbelt system and think a junior should start at 1st when they are an adult.

Opinions??

 

[terryl965]

Well with the kukkiwon you stay as a black but it is called a poom until you reach the age of 15 then you can pay a transferred fee and become a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Dan..I believe you should never have to start over because of age.... The material is the same at each level whether your 12 or 45 yrs old.... God Bless America

 

[stickarts]

For us, the student needs to be at least 14 to be an adult blackbelt. under 14 is jr. blackbelt. there are higher levels of jr blackbelt but once age 14 the student can test for adult 1st degree blackbelt.
the jr blackbelt program has a few less techniques and doesn't include the weapons that the adult program contains. also, an adult blackbelt has to put together their own kata and have a better understanding of application.
This has worked for us although we are always looking to improve the curriculum. Hope this helps.

 

[wadowoman]

I have junior blackbelts.

They must re-take the grade between 16 & 18 years (no re-testing fee) or revert to 1st kyu.

I disagree with junior 2nd/3rd Dans.
Sharon

 

[terryl965]

I have junior blackbelts.

They must re-take the grade between 16 & 18 years (no re-testing fee) or revert to 1st kyu.

[I disagree with junior 2nd/3rd Dans.]
Sharon

Well I guess you are not kukkiwn or USTU certified, they can have a 2nd or 3rd poom until the age of 15 then transfer that to DAN status.... God Bless America

 

[stickarts]

PS. We don't refer to higher level Jr blackbelts as 2nd dan, 3rd dan, etc...
we simply call it Jr. blackbelt level one, level two, etc...
Very few students reach these levels but they have served as great motivators for the really exceptional kids that make it that far at a young age. Using the jr. blackbelt levels was not pre-planned but evolved out of necessity to help keep some very talented kids motivated.

 

[Rick Wade]

for us a junior blackbelt is someone under 16 the requirements are diffrent that the adult blackbelt. there are more techniques and you even teach the extensions diffrent. I personally have seen very few (3 maybe) blackbelt in American Kenpo under the age of 16.

V/R

 

[Storm]

Some of our Junior students will be coming up to Black Belt this year. They will be considered Junior Black Belts and their syllabus is different to the Adults. They only do 6 of the 24 moves required. After they get their BB they will then start following the adult syllabus from Yellow Belt again conmpleting all 24. They can not become a Adult BB until they are at least 18.

 

[MountainSage]

The issue of Jr.BB, IMO, isn't one of skills or ability, but one of maturity and mental ability. Most young people (kids) don't have full developed mental capacity to react like an adult to a stressful situation.

Mountainsage

 

[MichiganTKD]

I don't really have a problem with a 10 year old 1st Dan black belt. I do have a problem with 12, 13, and 14 year old 2nd-3rd Dans. Would you give a 12 year old child an Associates or BA Degree? I don't care if they physically know the material, they are still kids and should be treated as kids. They do not understand the mental, social, philosophical, and spiritual aspects of that level of training. As an adult, I would never let myself be taught by a 12 year old 2nd or 3rd Dan.
Additionally, having a 2nd or 3rd Dan at 12 years old to me cheapens the rank for every adult who hold the same rank. This is the same as saying this 12-13-14 year old is the same level as you. What's to stop some Instructor from giving Master Rank to a 15-16-17 year old? I would let a 10 year old test for 1st Dan if ready, but then say "You're waiting until at least 15 years of age to test for 2nd Dan. Preferably older though." And yes, our organization is Kukkiwon affiliated.

 

[phlaw]

Thanks for all of the great replys.

I agree that they should have to start at 1st Dan when they are old enought, I would not like to see a 16 year old Master.

 

[Shu2jack]

While I do agree that 13 year olds should not be 2nd degrees, my instructor once told me something when I was 16 and training to become an instructor,

"Remember that respect can not be commanded, it has to be earned. You must also show respect in order to be able to earn respect. While some people in the classroom may be your junior in rank, they are your senior in age. They know more than you when it comes to paying bills, raising a family, etc. They have more knowledge than you in those areas and you need to respect that. On the same token, dispite the fact that they are older than you, you are their senior in rank and posess more knowledge of our system than they do and they should respect that. Teach them what you know and learn from what they know."

Do I think having kids as 2nd and 3rd dans is a good idea? No. I started MA when I was 11 and I am currently 21 and there is a BIG difference in mentality, understanding, knowledge, etc. While I would not want a 14 year old running the class I am training in, I do learn from them. Hell, I learn from teaching 6 year old kids. Just need to be open-minded.

[

 

[MichiganTKD]

I can relate. In our organization, the oldest black belt was an 80 year old man who started practicing after he retired. He got as high as 2nd Dan I believe. However, when he came to testings or tournaments as a spectator, he was treated as an honored guest because of respect to his age. He was given a place at the judges' table, even though as a 2nd Dan he was ineligible to judge. Because of his age he was treated the same as a Master Instructor, although he did not judge. He was junior to them in rank but senior in age and life experience. This is a very Oriental way of thinking. Some of the American students were probably thinking "What's that old man doing up there?"

 

[terryl965]

Michigan TKD well I was just wondering you said kids do not mature enough to hold rank well my question to you is what about those few that can really handle the stituation, like say agrifted child that get through highschool college and they are a doctor by the time they are 18 or say a computer wiz that knows everything and is setting on the broad of some company and are developing new tech. by the time they are able to get there drivers liscense... I know your point but every stituation has extreme circumstances in them... I respect your views you are one of the sounds one on this forum, but I know for some(myself) my kids have grown up in the MA enviroment there whole life my 10 yr old act more mature than some of my 18, 19 20, year old students, but then he lives for the art, not trying to impress anybody like teenagers do after they reach mid belt range like most student....not by any means trying to hurt anybody feeling each there own, that what makes America Great.... God Bless America

 

[Spud]

One of the reasons why I became frustrated with (and left) my dojang was the amount of time the instructors were removed from my adult class to attend to the handful of 6-12 year-old black belts who would be running through the dojang with toys, playing in the locker rooms and generally being a distraction. To be fair, there were a few black belts in the 16-18 year old range who were very disciplined and were an asset to the school beyond regular income.

It was also quite entertaining to hear parents complain about being prohibited from coaching their black belts through their forms at tournaments. Hello? The kid holds a first dan. I’d hope they would at least know the individual movements.

 

[ipscshooter]

One of the reasons why I became frustrated with (and left) my dojang was the amount of time the instructors were removed from my adult class to attend to the handful of 6-12 year-old black belts who would be running through the dojang with toys, playing in the locker rooms and generally being a distraction. To be fair, there were a few black belts in the 16-18 year old range who were very disciplined and were an asset to the school beyond regular income.

Wow, by the time they reach black belt, that type of behavior should have stopped. My 11 year old received his 1st dan at the age of 10 1/2, and he wouldn't have even considered behaving like that when he was a 6 year old yellow stripe.

It was also quite entertaining to hear parents complain about being prohibited from coaching their black belts through their forms at tournaments. Hello? The kid holds a first dan. I’d hope they would at least know the individual movements.

Coaching during performance of the kata? How odd.

 

[Han-Mi]

I was a blackbelt when I was 14 yrs old. I was able to do everything the adults could do. I had the technique to a point I could knock out a mand more than twice my size.(it was an accident, he came in from the side when we were doing tag team and he was gonna plow me, so I changed my kick in mid technique and whacked him in the head.:uhyeah: ) anyway, I got my 2nd dan when I was 16.(the third of three in my school:boing2: ) Where this is all leading is that now that I am 19 and getting ready for my 3rd dan, I understand that even though I knew everything required, I wasn't equal to an adult black belt. as said many times in this topic, it is a change in mentality and maturity.

Here's a funny situation, I was talking to an aolder man that was a 1st dan. Id say around mid 40's. we saw a 2nd dan bb kid, around 12-13. I said what do you think of that. He said I dunno, I guess he must be able to kick my ***.
I simply chuckled.

 

[OC Kid]

The system I belong to does not allow Black Belts under the age of 16. They feel it is a maturity issue and the age when the Grandmaster of the system achieved his black belt