Judo... will be?

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by Manny, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No more or less then someone in the US military or some of the folks Tez hangs out with or the Korean Marines I trained or pretty much everywhere else I've been. They are no "more" agressive or macho then anyone else. They only time I hear "it's a Brazil thing" is when BJJ people makes excuses for bad behavior.
     
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  2. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It's likely a Gracie thing. Quite a number of members of the family have a history of seeking out fights based on reasons that you or I would not consider to be valid justifications.
     
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  3. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's probably true. Even in my job there are certain families when you see that last name we know when dealing with them it's going to be problems some families are just wired differently. I see this it's a Brazil thing thrown around a lot and in my experience someone born in Brazil is no more likely to fight than anywhere else. Id suspect if it were true it has to do more with the poverty where some of these guys grew up then the place of birth.
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    My reason for suggesting the Renzo school was to give Manny an alternative to Judo in case he felt the latter was too kid-oriented.

    I don't know much about Mario Delgado, the head instructor in Veracruz, but Renzo Gracie black belts tend to be very good all around, and have a good mix of takedowns and ground work.
     
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  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't see how choking muggers unconscious is bad behaviour.

    Mabye that is an American thing.
     
  6. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    It's not.

    Tweeting the build up to it, and about how you're looking forward to it, and chasing down one of the would-be muggers and choking him out, though?

    Not just "bad behavior." It's prosecutable.

    His tweets, with the bolding added to show a lack of common sense, good judgement or avoidance tactics.
    What he says at 4:59, btw, is comically ironic.

    What he says at 3:53 and 5:03 is criminal.

    3:11 AM: 22nd street and 10th ave right now two guys following me, can’t help but have a big smile upon my face Im talking about a happy one [​IMG] )))
    3:12 AM: Waiting for them… Are they really thinking I’m drunk??? They have to be kidding. Hahahaha

    3:13 AM: 25th and 10ave [​IMG] they are getting closer lol [​IMG]
    3:16 AM: I just stop to take a pic, they pretend they are looking at the window, can’t lie… My blood runs in a different speed, man I miss Brazil
    3:17 AM: JiuJitsu [​IMG] )) never leave home without it [​IMG]

    3:18 AM: Please hold there for just a couple minutes [​IMG] be right back
    3:23 AM: They are coming closer, asking for a cigaret [​IMG] lol can’t help but have a smile in my face. I don’t smoke. Pretend to wobble. They smile
    3:47 AM: My hands hurt… Can’t help but look at him the other one took off running, not much of a friend. Chicken :-/ I can still see him, he looks
    3:49 AM: Back as he runs, no chance to catch him… Even though I began to try to run after him, I realize How slow I was. love it :-///
    3:53 AM: This one asks me why did I do that, pretending to be stupid, one little kick to the ribs makes him whine and apologize, as I’m writing this.
    3:55 AM: I ask him if he was planing to rob me, he says no. All he wanted was a cigarette, lol I can’t help but have a big smile upon my face, and ..
    3:57 AM: The certainty that if it was an ordinary man he would be sad about his stolen goods. lovely **** cries like a ***** when the tide turns…
    3:58 AM: I can’t help but take a pic as his nose bleeds and he wines and asks why did I do that… Like he doesn’t know the reason…
    3:59 AM: My lovely hands hurt, hurt like hell…

    4:06 AM: Drove around two blocks… The other fellow disappear, I’m heading home… Angry for not finding the second one. Guess no sleeping tonight
    4:26 AM: I knew it [​IMG] yessss
    4:59 AM: There is basic things like you don’t come back to where the problem was.. You just don’t, I knew he would, just going around the block would
    5:01 AM: Be enough… Dumb f%#^ I just gave him the old style Raccoon, it has been a while since the last time I did.. Choke him out 3 times…
    5:03 AM: And before he woke up I did hit each eye socket at least twice, tomorrow he will wake up like a raccoon, and every time he woke up I was…
    5:06 AM: Whispering at his ears.. That’s what death feels like it.. Don’t do that again. My lovely hand hurts, :-/ a lot
    5:08 AM: Next time I will use only the elbows, damn I miss that feeling, sometimes I wonder if the easy life has been making me
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't understand your issue with that? There is low risk of him being prosecuted.
     
  8. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    It wasn't good self-defense.

    It wasn't even "self-defense."

    As a teacher, his behavior is, presumably, emulated by his students.

    He failed his students.

    If his story is true, it's really that simple.
     
  9. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    If it really even happened he beat up a guy for asking for a cigarette. Where is the proof they were robbing anyone? There is none
     
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  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Didn't suggest it was self defence more of a karma action.
     
  11. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Oh, so Renzo Gracie is a card-carrying "Agent of K.A.R.M.A.?"

    I don't think so.

    Self-defense is all, especially in the U.S. Sure, he might have been "karmically justified," but that won't hold up in court-and might not even hold up in the court of public opinion.

    He set a bad example for all of his students-and tainted their reputations by doing so.

    It's really that simple.
     
  12. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Fixed it for you
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Did he get convicted?
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Did he go to court?
     
  15. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Only the court of public opinion-because he bragged about it, online-took pictures and posted them. As much as said that he was baiting the guys (or waiting for them) instead of seeking help and/or safety. Hit one guy for asking for a cigarette - though I don't entirely disapprove of this, in particular, there were so many ways he could have not let things get to this point......and then he chased the other guy......and choked him out.....and punched him in both eyes while he was unconscious.....and bragged about it online.

    Court or not, what part of the above shows good judgment?? Which part demonstrates the primary self-defense skills of avoidance or de-escalation? When he criminally stalked and assaulted the second guy, should he have bragged about it? People who display this sort of behavior are to be avoided as martial arts instructors, but especially as self-defense instructors. There's also the question of whether it actually occurred or not-if it didn't, this is also indicative of someone I would not recommend as an instructor, and, no matter how technically proficient-or morally upright-or both-I would not recommend one of his students, or anyone affiliated with him-as in, having his name on a sign...I'd recommend that they seek instruction elsewhere, with the caveat that the above incident and the headmaster's behaviors were the reason why. I've studied with people like that-today, it wouldn't matter much, but back then, when I was an impressionable young man, it did make a difference......I'd recommend against @Manny going there simply because what little I've gleaned from his character tells me he wouldn't be comfortable having his martial art served in such an atmosphere.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
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  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Because you feel Manny is impressionable and will emulate that behaviour.

    I think this is the thing about bouncing. You meet these martial artists in the real world and not on their pillar.

    I prefer an instructor who cares vs one who doesn't even if caring leads him to hunt down muggers and re educate them. It dosent really seem he used violence with bad intentions. Irresponsibly certainly. But hey. If you have a talent then use it.

    I have trained with Brazilians straight out of the favela and they love to fight. It is just their thing. But that dosent mean they are especially dangerous or immoral.

    Unless you try to mug them. Then they will hunt you down to the ends of the earth and choke you out.
     
  17. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    No-because Manny strikes me as a morally upright and somewhat dogmatic fellow-he's a grown *** man, over 40, I think, and can certainly make up his mind about such things.

    [Based on what I know, I wouldn't recommend anything associated with Renzo Gracie to him. Not all "Gracie jiu-jitsu," just that one, based on this instance, and a few others that were simply poor-form or sportsmanship.

    I

    So have I. I'm willing to concede that some of it may even have been cultural on his part. He's in the U.S., though, and he's not supposed to act that way, or train people to act that way.
    Full stop.
    (Simply cannot believe that I'm the one taking the higher moral ground here-talk about irony....:rolleyes: )
     
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  18. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    What's that got to do with anything, he admitted to a crime.
     
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  19. The Great Gigsy

    The Great Gigsy Orange Belt

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    I'm sorry, but once he decided to look for the other guy he became the assilant.
     
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  20. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Yet Renzo is still well-respected throughout the MA community, and his black belts and schools are some of the best around.

    So this is much ado about nothing.123
     

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