Judo or Taekwondo for best self defense?

[Isaiah90]

So how much have you trained in tkd or judo?

Because I'd really like to know where the "facts" you posted about them came from.

By the way, they can only be classified as facts if they're true, i.e. factual.

Saying there are no strikes in tkd is false, not factual.

That's not you presenting facts that go against my beliefs - that's you making up crap based on a huge lack of knowledge.

I'm not resorting to "cheap tactics", I'm honestly wondering where you got it from - because if it was from training that you paid for I'll try to help you get a refund.

lol i said there's limited striking in TKD. You're twisting my words to make it easier to debunk.

 

[pdg]

lol i said there's limited striking in TKD. You're twisting my words to make it easier to debunk.

You're twisting your own words mate. I don't need to make it easy to debunk you, you make it plenty easy enough all by yourself.

You said "no striking", not "limited striking".

Look. You even made it bold yourself to save me doing it.

Both have no striking - In Taekwondo, it's illegal for you to strike. Not to mention, not enough time is spent on striking in Taekwondo

Firstly you state there is no striking in tkd.

You then back that up by saying striking is illegal in tkd.

Then you say not enough time is spent on striking in tkd.


Make.
Up.
Your.
Mind.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

lol whenever you present the facts that go against a martial artist's beliefs, he/she always has to resort to cheap tactics like "oh you never trained in such art, therefore you can't criticize it.." Even when you have trained in it, you get ignored or questioned. That's laughable.

I actually said you don't know much about Kali. My experience with it is passing, and I find your comments about it oddly disconnected from what the art does. So, yeah, making definitive comments about an art you don't understand is odd, at best.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

lol i said there's limited striking in TKD. You're twisting my words to make it easier to debunk.

What do you mean by "limited striking"?

 

[Isaiah90]

I actually said you don't know much about Kali. My experience with it is passing, and I find your comments about it oddly disconnected from what the art does. So, yeah, making definitive comments about an art you don't understand is odd, at best.

What do you mean by "limited striking"?

Meaning that the rules in sport TKD limit your use of punching during competition. You can't punch to the head for example .

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Meaning that the rules in sport TKD limit your use of punching during competition. You can't punch to the head for example .

Okay, so you're talking about the sport rules for a specific sport. I assume you're aware that's not the same as the full TKD curriculum?

 

[pdg]

Meaning that the rules in sport TKD limit your use of punching during competition. You can't punch to the head for example .

Okay, so you're talking about the sport rules for a specific sport. I assume you're aware that's not the same as the full TKD curriculum?

Also notice the rules for "sport tkd", which I have to assume is WT rules.

Not even the same ruleset in the sport sparring in ITF tkd.

Which, guess what?

Allows punching to the head, no limits. You can win an entire match by simply punching to the head.

You score more points per strike with kicks, but if you can't kick or you like punching, then punch.

So, y'know, incorrect statement based on ignorance of the facts.

Next?

 

[Isaiah90]

Also notice the rules for "sport tkd", which I have to assume is WT rules.

Not even the same ruleset in the sport sparring in ITF tkd.

Which, guess what?

Allows punching to the head, no limits. You can win an entire match by simply punching to the head.

You score more points per strike with kicks, but if you can't kick or you like punching, then punch.

So, y'know, incorrect statement based on ignorance of the facts.

Next?

Ok, let's suppose you can win by punching to the head. It's still ineffective for self defense.

If i ran up on you and started punching you unexpectedly, you're not going to have time to "fight." I'm not going to let you get into your stance and spar. That's how real life attacks work.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok, let's suppose you can win by punching to the head. It's still ineffective for self defense.

If i ran up on you and started punching you unexpectedly, you're not going to have time to "fight." I'm not going to let you get into your stance and spar. That's how real life attacks work.

What part of a punch to the head requires specific stances or sparring? I'm primarily a grappler, but there's nothing this side of a pulling a trigger - nothing - faster than a simple straight punch.

 

[pdg]

Ok, let's suppose you can win by punching to the head. It's still ineffective for self defense.

If i ran up on you and started punching you unexpectedly, you're not going to have time to "fight." I'm not going to let you get into your stance and spar. That's how real life attacks work.

Sparring isn't self defence, I never even hinted that it was. It's a game with rules. The problem is that you don't seem to understand it being a game and you seem to think the rules for that game dictate the entire art, even though you don't actually know the rules for every version of the game anyway.

But OK then, I'll play along with a scenario or 4... I'll only use techniques from tkd.

If you run up to me and start punching, one thing that sparring will have helped with is not emotionally falling apart due to being punched. (That's if you don't get a lucky suckerpunch in and get a knock out, for which there is honestly no defence at all)

So, scenario A - I wrap your arm (using the movement trained in an outward forearm block), then with the other hand do an archand strike to your neck while sweeping your leg with a low section hook kick and dump you on your back. Then I follow up with a pressing kick to your face and finally stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario B. I do a rising wedging block to open your arms and grab your shoulders, headbutt to the face, upward knee to the groin. Then use a circular block motion to lift your leg and drop you. Finally, stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario C. As you start punching I jump back and do a snap kick to your chin. Then a reverse hook kick to the back of your head, maintaining that foot contact to drive your face into the floor. Now you're down there I can walk around to stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario D. I sidestep and spin with an elbow to your neck. Then a side thrusting kick to your chest to push you back a bit so I have range to use the wall I was leaning against when you attacked to do a reflex turning kick to your head. Really, that'll put you down. Stomping and restomping the groin would maybe seem superfluous at this point, but I'll do it anyway. Because you deserve it.



Notice how none of them required me to "get into my stance".

 

[Isaiah90]

Sparring isn't self defence, I never even hinted that it was. It's a game with rules. The problem is that you don't seem to understand it being a game and you seem to think the rules for that game dictate the entire art, even though you don't actually know the rules for every version of the game anyway.

But OK then, I'll play along with a scenario or 4... I'll only use techniques from tkd.

If you run up to me and start punching, one thing that sparring will have helped with is not emotionally falling apart due to being punched. (That's if you don't get a lucky suckerpunch in and get a knock out, for which there is honestly no defence at all)

So, scenario A - I wrap your arm (using the movement trained in an outward forearm block), then with the other hand do an archand strike to your neck while sweeping your leg with a low section hook kick and dump you on your back. Then I follow up with a pressing kick to your face and finally stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario B. I do a rising wedging block to open your arms and grab your shoulders, headbutt to the face, upward knee to the groin. Then use a circular block motion to lift your leg and drop you. Finally, stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario C. As you start punching I jump back and do a snap kick to your chin. Then a reverse hook kick to the back of your head, maintaining that foot contact to drive your face into the floor. Now you're down there I can walk around to stomp and restomp the groin.

Scenario D. I sidestep and spin with an elbow to your neck. Then a side thrusting kick to your chest to push you back a bit so I have range to use the wall I was leaning against when you attacked to do a reflex turning kick to your head. Really, that'll put you down. Stomping and restomping the groin would maybe seem superfluous at this point, but I'll do it anyway. Because you deserve it.



Notice how none of them required me to "get into my stance".

The problem with all those scenarios is you assume that i'm just going to comply and it's all goign to go exactly as planned lol.

 

[pdg]

The problem with all those scenarios is you assume that i'm just going to comply and it's all goign to go exactly as planned lol.

There are two possible answers to that...

1. Such is the speed and ferocity of defence using the killing art that whether you choose to comply or not makes no difference, the conflict will be over before you can make that decision anyway.

2. That's why I don't plan and I don't like scenario training being labelled as "self defence". I made up the scenarios for a giggle and to see what you came up with as a rebuttal. Nothing of substance as it turns out.



Thing is, you claim "1 or 2 strikes is enough to finish any opponent", which to be frank is absolute balls anyway. But if you think you can legitimately claim that it means you have a plan which you expect to be able to execute and that I as your attacker will comply. If you can claim that, so can I. And, so can your attacker.

You know what, I'm going to accept the clickbait and watch a couple of your videos later, then I can sit back and pick it apart like you have with other arts.

 

[pdg]

Erm, your "empty handed self defence sparring with a gunman" video...

You've never met a gunman have you?

 

[pdg]

So I've watched a couple more...

I believe your "8 years training" actually equates to doing a few trial classes over the last 8 years.

Your movements and body control are like a baby deer, you have very little control and even less balance. Much less any actual clue.

The real reason you "quit martial arts" isn't in the video - it's because you're not physically capable due to lack of training and conditioning. This could be remedied, but I think you were expecting it to happen during one of the trial lessons I mentioned above and I don't think you have the mental fortitude to work off those moobs.

You issued an open challenge. But then you introduced conditions like wanting to see your possible challengers so you could vet them. And you shut down the only people who accepted your challenge. Not very open at all now is it?

Then I saw your video about "cultural appropriation and white privilege in martial arts" - that was when I decided that I'm done watching your videos, if it was within the site rules I'd call you a jumped up self important little wanker, but I won't...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The problem with all those scenarios is you assume that i'm just going to comply and it's all goign to go exactly as planned lol.

Where in any of them did that require anyone's compliance?

 

[axelb]

Okay, so you're talking about the sport rules for a specific sport. I assume you're aware that's not the same as the full TKD curriculum?

I don't think @Isaiah90 is invested in researching TKD as it conflicts with the handful of karate/wing chin classes they attended before creating an online self defence course.

people training in TKD works in self defence,
people training in judo works in self defence.
your chances of needing to use it are very small, both have their merits, and both work better than an online self defence course from someone with no martial arts qualifications.

 

[frank raud]

The problem with all those scenarios is you assume that i'm just going to comply and it's all goign to go exactly as planned lol.

Kinda like the way the attacker can have his way with anyone in all the scenarios you propose? Funny how that works.

 

[frank raud]

Erm, your "empty handed self defence sparring with a gunman" video...

You've never met a gunman have you?

Come on now "I deflected the bullet, or I got hit in the chest, accidently" That doesn't inspire you with confidence in the technique?

 

[Isaiah90]

Kinda like the way the attacker can have his way with anyone in all the scenarios you propose? Funny how that works.

I don't got any scenarios lol. That's the whole point of what i said. Scenarios are BS.

 

[Isaiah90]

Kinda like the way the attacker can have his way with anyone in all the scenarios you propose? Funny how that works.

I don't got any scenarios lol. That's the whole point of what i said. Scenarios are BS.