Judo or Taekwondo for best self defense?

[JR 137]

This is a great analogy of the progress of student from beginning with a scripted process. In almost ever school there will be a low level static drill with a compliant partner, and this progresses as lined out here.

those that do not attend a school beyond a certain level will never see the progression of this, and in some cases there are bad schools that never go beyond the static script.
In these cases students will leave with the belief that these scripts are useless as they never moved onto the next stage.

That’s what happens when you “train” in a system for a few months and leave thinking you know everything and what they’re teaching will never work. Of course those scripted responses will never work, they’re not supposed to work that way. Those people don’t have the slightest clue what progression means and how the progression is being implemented. I put “train” in quotations because how seriously can one train if they’ve only stayed a few months at most?

We did a set of 10 “basic self defenses” in my first organization (20 if you count against a right punch coming at you and against a left punch coming individually). When I first started learning them, I though they’d work pretty well as scripted. A month or two later, I thought they’d never work and were a complete waste of time. After some more time I started seeing them for what they really are - teaching the basics of what I described above.

This guy sufferes from the same problem as my 4th-8th grade science students - he wants to “think outside the box” yet he hasn’t learned how to think inside the box first. In order to be some sort of innovator, one needs to know the textbook stuff inside and out first. How does someone know which parts are fundamentally flawed and which one aren’t when they have no experience beyond seeing something a few times?

Me being interested in photography, there’s a saying that comes up quite a bit and definitely applies here - learn the rules of photography. Master them. Then master them some more. Then learn how, when, and which ones to break. This guy wants to break all the rules; the only problem is he has no clue why the rules exist and is breaking them in the wrong ways for all the wrong reasons. When that happens, you’ve got a complete mess, like his videos painfully prove time and time again.

Einstein would’ve never been able to come up with any of his revolutionary stuff if he didn’t know the accepted stuff first. This guy’s got two fundamental flaws - he wants to skip the accepted stuff and go straight to revolutionary ideas, and he’s definitely no Einstein.

 

[pgsmith]

For those wondering, it's worth watching

No, it really wasn't.

That’s what happens when you “train” in a system for a few months and leave thinking you know everything and what they’re teaching will never work. Of course those scripted responses will never work, they’re not supposed to work that way. Those people don’t have the slightest clue what progression means and how the progression is being implemented. I put “train” in quotations because how seriously can one train if they’ve only stayed a few months at most?

We did a set of 10 “basic self defenses” in my first organization (20 if you count against a right punch coming at you and against a left punch coming individually). When I first started learning them, I though they’d work pretty well as scripted. A month or two later, I thought they’d never work and were a complete waste of time. After some more time I started seeing them for what they really are - teaching the basics of what I described above.

This guy sufferes from the same problem as my 4th-8th grade science students - he wants to “think outside the box” yet he hasn’t learned how to think inside the box first. In order to be some sort of innovator, one needs to know the textbook stuff inside and out first. How does someone know which parts are fundamentally flawed and which one aren’t when they have no experience beyond seeing something a few times?

Me being interested in photography, there’s a saying that comes up quite a bit and definitely applies here - learn the rules of photography. Master them. Then master them some more. Then learn how, when, and which ones to break. This guy wants to break all the rules; the only problem is he has no clue why the rules exist and is breaking them in the wrong ways for all the wrong reasons. When that happens, you’ve got a complete mess, like his videos painfully prove time and time again.

Einstein would’ve never been able to come up with any of his revolutionary stuff if he didn’t know the accepted stuff first. This guy’s got two fundamental flaws - he wants to skip the accepted stuff and go straight to revolutionary ideas, and he’s definitely no Einstein.

That was very well said, and worth repeating, as it is a very common misconception that has launched hundreds of YouTube martial artists.

 

[JR 137]

That was very well said, and worth repeating, as it is a very common misconception that has launched hundreds of YouTube martial artists.

I didn’t think of the YouTube clowns watching stuff and then fixing the shortcomings without ever having stepped foot in a dojo. Maybe, just maybe they’re trying out the stuff they see with their equally senseless buddies in their backyard and confirming their idiocy. Kinda like this guy saying he’s used his stuff and other stuff in sparring. I wonder if that’s what he’s calling the videos I’ve seen where the village people looking guy with the hard hat is getting choked out without an imaginary melee weapon, and the other one where he’s getting shot at with a nerf gun.

I wasn’t thinking about the jokers like this. I guess I underestimated the level of stupidity out there. I was thinking about the people who go to a dojo for a month or 3 and say karate (or insert art here) doesn’t work because they failed to see the prearranged stuff and drills are concepts rather than literal fighting moves.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I didn’t think of the YouTube clowns watching stuff and then fixing the shortcomings without ever having stepped foot in a dojo. Maybe, just maybe they’re trying out the stuff they see with their equally senseless buddies in their backyard and confirming their idiocy. Kinda like this guy saying he’s used his stuff and other stuff in sparring. I wonder if that’s what he’s calling the videos I’ve seen where the village people looking guy with the hard hat is getting choked out without an imaginary melee weapon, and the other one where he’s getting shot at with a nerf gun.

I wasn’t thinking about the jokers like this. I guess I underestimated the level of stupidity out there. I was thinking about the people who go to a dojo for a month or 3 and say karate (or insert art here) doesn’t work because they failed to see the prearranged stuff and drills are concepts rather than literal fighting moves.

Wait...it's an actual imaginary melee weapon? I assumed he meant like a padded club or something when he said pretend weapon.

 

[JR 137]

Wait...it's an actual imaginary melee weapon? I assumed he meant like a padded club or something when he said pretend weapon.

I don’t know how to interpret anything the guy’s said. I’ve tried to, but then I realize I’m coming dangerously close to starting to think on his terms, and I back away very cautiously. Extremely cautiously.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

actual imaginary melee weapon

My favorite phrase of this page of this thread.