Journey to a new style...

[Deleted member 40465]

Cheers appreciate it! Ah yep I'm guessing you're referring to my first post. Yeah that instructor trained in a few styles, coming from very very tough Kyokushin days, to refining and evolving into a softer approach. To be honest my thoughts keep going back to last year when I trained there... it sounds more in line with how I want to train and what approach I want to take, and I could train in the Aikido classes he holds too (as he only has one karate class a week unfortunately).

That thought keeps popping up... only thing is I do like a bit of intensity in training every now and then and the training wasn't too instance. And I don't think there's much free sparring at all, but moreso partner drills.

If I really resonate with Sensei Rick Hotton's aiki karate, perhaps this would be the closest I could get to it...

Any thoughts or feedback on this is fully welcome by the way, I respect you guys and your insight a great deal

That is a tuffy. I understand the need for intense sparring, once you've had it you really can't go back to point sparring (or at least I got depressed when I tried Lol)

If it is Kyokushin you miss, give them a call. If it is the more intense sparring you desire, maybe there is a Muay Thai or kickboxing place near you?

 

[_Simon_]

That is a tuffy. I understand the need for intense sparring, once you've had it you really can't go back to point sparring (or at least I got depressed when I tried Lol)

If it is Kyokushin you miss, give them a call. If it is the more intense sparring you desire, maybe there is a Muay Thai or kickboxing place near you?

Cheers, ah nah I'm pretty done with intense sparring hehe, and don't plan on going back to Kyokushin. I guess I'm wanting to ease up on myself and explore other options, but every now and then I do really enjoy an intense session.

It's possible I'm asking/expecting too much haha, so trying to remain open to alternate options, but will see where this journey takes me.

 

[Deleted member 40465]

Cheers, ah nah I'm pretty done with intense sparring hehe, and don't plan on going back to Kyokushin. I guess I'm wanting to ease up on myself and explore other options, but every now and then I do really enjoy an intense session.

It's possible I'm asking/expecting too much haha, so trying to remain open to alternate options, but will see where this journey takes me.

That's the part that sucks im in the same boat. When you're no longer a spring chicken and you want to explore other styles, I find its hard cause the softer styles will never be the same as the hard stuff in your mind.

 

[_Simon_]

That's the part that sucks im in the same boat. When you're no longer a spring chicken and you want to explore other styles, I find its hard cause the softer styles will never be the same as the hard stuff in your mind.

Ah really, hope you find what suits you!

Yeah for sure I know what you mean. And I guess I'm not after anything for super self defense or anything, but I do love having an intense session, it certainly has its place and develops and reminds you of that strength, resilience and perseverance within. I do miss that!

Something with a nice balance of soft/hard that doesn't lean either way to an extreme would be awesome.. but perhaps I've really honed that harder training already so perhaps need to lean into more softer training? Hmmmmmm......

 

[Deleted member 40465]

Soft is good to stay in shape without mangling your body which is important also.

 

[_Simon_]

Soft is good to stay in shape without mangling your body which is important also.

Yep definitely, and that's important to me, to be able to train for longevity and health too, and be able to continue to train when older

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yeah for sure I know what you mean. And I guess I'm not after anything for super self defense or anything, but I do love having an intense session, it certainly has its place and develops and reminds you of that strength, resilience and perseverance within. I do miss that!

Have you tried seeking out other Kyokushin dojos in your area. Perhaps there is a dojo more suited to what you are looking for but isn't as harsh on the body as your old dojo. Sounds odd but not all dojos are the same.

 

[_Simon_]

Have you tried seeking out other Kyokushin dojos in your area. Perhaps there is a dojo more suited to what you are looking for but isn't as harsh on the body as your old dojo. Sounds odd but not all dojos are the same.

That's a fair idea actually, I remember there was one Sensei who used to also help out in our dojo, but left our branch after not being happy with things. But every time he took the class I really loved it and got so much out of it. We still did some harder stuff, but we'd do really cool exercises and break things down alot more, had more focused sections, I've always been grateful to him and I emailed him that when he left the branch, was sad that he left.

But that is an idea, I'd be happy to train with him again at his dojo. I'm also concerned about gradings. In one sense I don't wanna cruise through it and get a handout, want to feel like I earned it, but also don't want to fear them so much and their effect on my body due to how harsh they are, especially higher gradings. Probably why I only graded once a year when I trained haha..

But definite food for thought, appreciate that

 

[drop bear]

Ah really, hope you find what suits you!

Yeah for sure I know what you mean. And I guess I'm not after anything for super self defense or anything, but I do love having an intense session, it certainly has its place and develops and reminds you of that strength, resilience and perseverance within. I do miss that!

Something with a nice balance of soft/hard that doesn't lean either way to an extreme would be awesome.. but perhaps I've really honed that harder training already so perhaps need to lean into more softer training? Hmmmmmm......

Fly up to Rockhampton. Train with this guy.

Trainers | Fitzroy Martial Arts

 

[_Simon_]

Fly up to Rockhampton. Train with this guy.

Trainers | Fitzroy Martial Arts

Ah nice, that actually looks like a really cool place to train. If I'm ever in the area I'll keep it in mind, cheers

 

[Yokozuna514]

That's a fair idea actually, I remember there was one Sensei who used to also help out in our dojo, but left our branch after not being happy with things. But every time he took the class I really loved it and got so much out of it. We still did some harder stuff, but we'd do really cool exercises and break things down alot more, had more focused sections, I've always been grateful to him and I emailed him that when he left the branch, was sad that he left.

But that is an idea, I'd be happy to train with him again at his dojo. I'm also concerned about gradings. In one sense I don't wanna cruise through it and get a handout, want to feel like I earned it, but also don't want to fear them so much and their effect on my body due to how harsh they are, especially higher gradings. Probably why I only graded once a year when I trained haha..

But definite food for thought, appreciate that

You may want to start a conversation with him and express 'why' you left and what your concerns are. I do not know any Kyokushin gradings that are simple enough to 'cruise' through but depending on the grade the intensity should be just outside your comfort zone without causing too much bodily harm. If your opponents are higher belts, you should feel somewhat safer as it is part of their responsibility to help push you but in a safe and controlled manner. There really is no excuse for higher belts to take advantage of lower belts during a grading, imho. Besides, we were all there and should remember what it was like to be in your shoes.

 

[_Simon_]

You may want to start a conversation with him and express 'why' you left and what your concerns are. I do not know any Kyokushin gradings that are simple enough to 'cruise' through but depending on the grade the intensity should be just outside your comfort zone without causing too much bodily harm. If your opponents are higher belts, you should feel somewhat safer as it is part of their responsibility to help push you but in a safe and controlled manner. There really is no excuse for higher belts to take advantage of lower belts during a grading, imho. Besides, we were all there and should remember what it was like to be in your shoes.

Yeah that's a possibility. Ah yeah... our gradings were pretty much always being pushed faaaar beyond one's comfort zone, and sparring was rough. There were alot of seniors I just did not feel safe with at all, and they were really going for it. Some were really good and looked after you, but especially higher grade tests it was intense and relentless, I don't think it was possible to get through all the gradings without an injury at some stage. I like that idea too, that the higher grades are there to look after you but push you, but sometimes it just felt like they were smashing us.

And I guess if higher grades remember what it was like for them, they're going to continue that.

I was so hesitant about grading and I was never excited about them, but in utter fear of being hurt or passing out. Which of course is my own stuff, but yeah I wasn't motivated to continue doing that. But that's the thing, I can absolutely see the immense benefit of that. For sure. It is pushing beyond your perceived limits and about reaching such breakthroughs within yourself to persevere while being pushed. You realise alot about yourself.

I remember my green belt grading, deemed as the second biggest grading in our circles anyway as it was the first of the senior grades, and it was something I have never experienced before, and will never forget it. I can see the value in that, but now feel that I've gone to that extreme, seen the value it's produced within myself (and also the detriment in terms of my health) and am ready to move onto something more in line with how I want to live my life from now on, and in being easier on myself.

Sorry about that whole spiel that was good to get that out haha. But a good idea in bringing that up with my other instructor, osu.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yeah that's a possibility. Ah yeah... our gradings were pretty much always being pushed faaaar beyond one's comfort zone, and sparring was rough. There were alot of seniors I just did not feel safe with at all, and they were really going for it. Some were really good and looked after you, but especially higher grade tests it was intense and relentless, I don't think it was possible to get through all the gradings without an injury at some stage. I like that idea too, that the higher grades are there to look after you but push you, but sometimes it just felt like they were smashing us.

And I guess if higher grades remember what it was like for them, they're going to continue that.

I was so hesitant about grading and I was never excited about them, but in utter fear of being hurt or passing out. Which of course is my own stuff, but yeah I wasn't motivated to continue doing that. But that's the thing, I can absolutely see the immense benefit of that. For sure. It is pushing beyond your perceived limits and about reaching such breakthroughs within yourself to persevere while being pushed. You realise alot about yourself.

I remember my green belt grading, deemed as the second biggest grading in our circles anyway as it was the first of the senior grades, and it was something I have never experienced before, and will never forget it. I can see the value in that, but now feel that I've gone to that extreme, seen the value it's produced within myself (and also the detriment in terms of my health) and am ready to move onto something more in line with how I want to live my life from now on, and in being easier on myself.

Sorry about that whole spiel that was good to get that out haha. But a good idea in bringing that up with my other instructor, osu.

Gradings are supposed to show you where you are in your journey. They are about exposing the weaknesses and getting students to pass what THEY believe to be their perceived limits. They check not only the knowledge of the student but their physical fitness and their will to persevere through difficult conditions. There is a reason why sparring is done at the end of the grading. When the student is almost completely tapped physically, mentally and emotionally the only thing left to check is how much of their training has sunk into muscle memory. Can they function under controlled duress. It is and should not be about knockdown fighting but instead can the student push through and find more gas when they think they are on empty.

I never quite understood the point of higher belts going at knockdown intensity on someone who has basically been put through the mill. I had a young Shodan dislocate my rib and had to finish my green belt grading with a broken thumb. You can bet when I came back fully healed I remembered to line up with him at the next sparring session. Ok funny guy, try that crap on me now . He walked out of that session walking a little funny but to my knowledge he never did that again to anyone.

People come to the dojo to train for a multitude of reasons. No one comes to the dojo to get injured to the point that they have to stop to recover. If you want to spar at KD intensity, sign up for a tournament and prepare for it with other people that want to train KD. Don't go to a grading and pick on someone who's been put through the wringer for 6 hours while you are still fresh. That is pointless, imho.

 

[JR 137]

Gradings are supposed to show you where you are in your journey. They are about exposing the weaknesses and getting students to pass what THEY believe to be their perceived limits. They check not only the knowledge of the student but their physical fitness and their will to persevere through difficult conditions. There is a reason why sparring is done at the end of the grading. When the student is almost completely tapped physically, mentally and emotionally the only thing left to check is how much of their training has sunk into muscle memory. Can they function under controlled duress. It is and should not be about knockdown fighting but instead can the student push through and find more gas when they think they are on empty.

I never quite understood the point of higher belts going at knockdown intensity on someone who has basically been put through the mill. I had a young Shodan dislocate my rib and had to finish my green belt grading with a broken thumb. You can bet when I came back fully healed I remembered to line up with him at the next sparring session. Ok funny guy, try that crap on me now . He walked out of that session walking a little funny but to my knowledge he never did that again to anyone.

People come to the dojo to train for a multitude of reasons. No one comes to the dojo to get injured to the point that they have to stop to recover. If you want to spar at KD intensity, sign up for a tournament and prepare for it with other people that want to train KD. Don't go to a grading and pick on someone who's been put through the wringer for 6 hours while you are still fresh. That is pointless, imho.

Sparring during a grading should be about pushing someone to their limits. And maybe just a little passed them. It’s definitely not the time for higher ranks to demonstrate or prove why they’re higher ranks.

Every grading I had, the seniors were a step ahead of me during sparring. They made me work for everything rather than trying to beat me.

For a blatant example of it, one needs to look no further than the 100 man kumite. Even with the very best of the best, after a certain point, any one of the opponents are capable of getting the ippon and ending it. But they don’t. They’re there to ensure the integrity of the event, not make a name for themselves by beating someone. Do you really think Francisco Filho couldn’t have beaten Hajime Kazumi with one hand and one foot tied behind his back when Filho was the 100th opponent?

A grading is about the person who’s testing showing what they know and can handle; not the seniors showing what they know. If the seniors weren’t following this, and repeatedly not doing this, it’s the dojo and not Kyokushin as a whole IMO. And IMO that’s on the head guy for not making it known.

 

[_Simon_]

Gradings are supposed to show you where you are in your journey. They are about exposing the weaknesses and getting students to pass what THEY believe to be their perceived limits. They check not only the knowledge of the student but their physical fitness and their will to persevere through difficult conditions. There is a reason why sparring is done at the end of the grading. When the student is almost completely tapped physically, mentally and emotionally the only thing left to check is how much of their training has sunk into muscle memory. Can they function under controlled duress. It is and should not be about knockdown fighting but instead can the student push through and find more gas when they think they are on empty.

I never quite understood the point of higher belts going at knockdown intensity on someone who has basically been put through the mill. I had a young Shodan dislocate my rib and had to finish my green belt grading with a broken thumb. You can bet when I came back fully healed I remembered to line up with him at the next sparring session. Ok funny guy, try that crap on me now . He walked out of that session walking a little funny but to my knowledge he never did that again to anyone.

People come to the dojo to train for a multitude of reasons. No one comes to the dojo to get injured to the point that they have to stop to recover. If you want to spar at KD intensity, sign up for a tournament and prepare for it with other people that want to train KD. Don't go to a grading and pick on someone who's been put through the wringer for 6 hours while you are still fresh. That is pointless, imho.

Sparring during a grading should be about pushing someone to their limits. And maybe just a little passed them. It’s definitely not the time for higher ranks to demonstrate or prove why they’re higher ranks.

Every grading I had, the seniors were a step ahead of me during sparring. They made me work for everything rather than trying to beat me.

For a blatant example of it, one needs to look no further than the 100 man kumite. Even with the very best of the best, after a certain point, any one of the opponents are capable of getting the ippon and ending it. But they don’t. They’re there to ensure the integrity of the event, not make a name for themselves by beating someone. Do you really think Francisco Filho couldn’t have beaten Hajime Kazumi with one hand and one foot tied behind his back when Filho was the 100th opponent?

A grading is about the person who’s testing showing what they know and can handle; not the seniors showing what they know. If the seniors weren’t following this, and repeatedly not doing this, it’s the dojo and not Kyokushin as a whole IMO. And IMO that’s on the head guy for not making it known.

Well said guys, thanks for that, it's a good thing to be aware of.

I understand the need for intensity in that situation, but yeah that's right you don't go into it expecting to be injured. Higher grades are to look after you and have your welfare in mind.

I guess it's a matter of quality control hey. And making sure every black belt in the kumite is on the same page and has a responsibility.

I remember a fellow student was doing his Shodan grading, and during the 40 rounds of kumite one of the Senseis (who trained in judo also), did a leg sweep on him and dropped him. At about fight 30. We generally didn't do any sort of sweeps in sparring our branch, didn't train them nor prepare for them in any way, so for him to use that was completely out of line. Not to mention at fight number 30 he's NOT gonna be thinking about getting sweeped and he's just trying to survive at this point in this completely exhausted state, just trying to keep standing. And not only that, but as he hit the ground hard, he louded shouted an expletive, he'd broken his arm on the fall. He was in great pain, and had to slot his arm through his belt to keep it still and finish those last extremely difficult 10 fights.

Inspiring for sure, but didn't make me even remotely look forward to higher gradings.

 

[JR 137]

Well said guys, thanks for that, it's a good thing to be aware of.

I understand the need for intensity in that situation, but yeah that's right you don't go into it expecting to be injured. Higher grades are to look after you and have your welfare in mind.

I guess it's a matter of quality control hey. And making sure every black belt in the kumite is on the same page and has a responsibility.

I remember a fellow student was doing his Shodan grading, and during the 40 rounds of kumite one of the Senseis (who trained in judo also), did a leg sweep on him and dropped him. At about fight 30. We generally didn't do any sort of sweeps in sparring our branch, didn't train them nor prepare for them in any way, so for him to use that was completely out of line. Not to mention at fight number 30 he's NOT gonna be thinking about getting sweeped and he's just trying to survive at this point in this completely exhausted state, just trying to keep standing. And not only that, but as he hit the ground hard, he louded shouted an expletive, he'd broken his arm on the fall. He was in great pain, and had to slot his arm through his belt to keep it still and finish those last extremely difficult 10 fights.

Inspiring for sure, but didn't make me even remotely look forward to higher gradings.

That’s not how it’s supposed to go. The CI is supposed to make sure of that. The culture is all wrong. Nothing more to say, really.

 

[_Simon_]

That’s not how it’s supposed to go. The CI is supposed to make sure of that. The culture is all wrong. Nothing more to say, really.

Yeah we were all gobsmacked.. this happened a few years ago, but yeah the fellow's instructor (who is actually the one we've been talking about, who left the branch and who I really enjoyed learning from) was so pissed off. Perhaps one of reasons he left?

The Sensei who did the leg sweep was a very intense fellow.. and called the guy who graded the day after his grading, just really saying that's just how we do things in our dojo, not even apologising.

That's just one instance I can think of, but the higher gradings have always been just brutal. Safety didn't seem to be a priority.. I remember the branch chief saying in a grading to the crowd "any group that wears gloves in the grading kumite is not true Kyokushin, we don't wear gloves here". We could in class, but gradings it wasn't allowed.

I mean I got severely sprained/strained intercostal (rib) muscles from my green belt grading (my avatar pic actually is me at my 4th Kyu grading) from hits, but that happens. My dojo was great though, and my instructor was always looking out for us and our safety.

 

[_Simon_]

Been a couple of weeks (I didn't end up going back to the other dojang, surprise [emoji14] ), I called up and checked out another karate dojo last night just to sit on the side and watch. The instructor was very supportive of me going round and watching and training around in other styles etc, and he said you never really know what a place is like from just reading on their website and commended me on that, so that was nice.

Very good instructor and big on technique and detail, but couldn't really see myself training there and enjoying it. Was great for me to pick that up, and I made sure it wasn't just an avoidance of hard work within myself. It definitely reminded me of my old training days and exactly what I was leaving behind.

The search continues......

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Been a couple of weeks (I didn't end up going back to the other dojang, surprise [emoji14] ), I called up and checked out another karate dojo last night just to sit on the side and watch. The instructor was very supportive of me going round and watching and training around in other styles etc, and he said you never really know what a place is like from just reading on their website and commended me on that, so that was nice.

Very good instructor and big on technique and detail, but couldn't really see myself training there and enjoying it. Was great for me to pick that up, and I made sure it wasn't just an avoidance of hard work within myself. It definitely reminded me of my old training days and exactly what I was leaving behind.

The search continues......

One of the hardest things is finding a good instructor AND still realizing it's not the right place. Good on you.

 

[_Simon_]

One of the hardest things is finding a good instructor AND still realizing it's not the right place. Good on you.

Ah cheers, yeah I just had to be truly honest with myself and ask whether I could really see myself training here a couple of days every week.

I know I won't find something absolutely perfect in every way, but also above all I don't want to just settle.