JKD vs. Wing Chun

[rooke]

In no way am I saying Wing Chun is superior or inferior to JKD. But I disagree with the arguments being used.

People are stopping the argument with Bruce Lee. The real question is with the concepts group, after Bruce's passing, how much >MORE< of the Wing Chun curriculum/methods did they add to THEIR JKD...along with Muay Thai, Kali, etc.

And after Bruce's passing, how much of his methods were incorporated into Wing Chun?

Rooke

 

[zepedawingchun]

And after Bruce's passing, how much of his methods were incorporated into Wing Chun? Rooke

Can you elaborate? What 'methods' might you be thinking about that came from Bruce that Wing Chun uses?

 

[rooke]

History in martial arts has a tendency to change. But I've heard a couple of well-known Wing Chun exponents say that Wing Chun DOES have mobile footwork...Bruce just never reached a high enough level to learn it. Suddenly, after Bruce dies, there are alot of "We always had that.".

Now MAYBE WC does. It makes sense. But the question is, did this show up AFTER Bruce's passing?

Wing Chun is a succinct, compact, and dynamic set of principles for combat. Its very elegant. But this also means it can be altered to suit new ideas. Its not a rigid and dead system. At least that's how I view it. So folks have taken bits of other ideas and incorporated them. After all, there's a reason why the different branches from Yip Man all look so differently. They took different information from him, and added their own interpretation and twist. As a result, there will be influences from other people.

But its my current opinion based on what I've read.

Rooke

 

[zepedawingchun]

History in martial arts has a tendency to change. But I've heard a couple of well-known Wing Chun exponents say that Wing Chun DOES have mobile footwork...Bruce just never reached a high enough level to learn it.

I can't speak for anyone in the Yip Man lineage, but our lineage has always had mobile footwork. However, it is believed you should not move unless you have to, economy of motion. Moving for the sake of moving is not suggested.

Now MAYBE WC does. It makes sense. But the question is, did this show up AFTER Bruce's passing?

No. It was always there.

Wing Chun is a succinct, compact, and dynamic set of principles for combat. Its very elegant. But this also means it can be altered to suit new ideas. Its not a rigid and dead system. At least that's how I view it.

True.

 

[James Kovacich]

JKD has it's roots in Wing Chun, yes, but it didn't go beyond it. JKD went beyond Bruce Lee's knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun. Bruce only knew or had half of the the Wing Chun system. How can you claim something has flaws or shortcomings when you don't know everything there is to it. The purpose of WC and JKD is the same, to use as little effort as needed (energy, power, technique, etc.) to defeat your opponent. To be as efficient and direct as possible and to express it your way. Period. Bruce did exactly what the monks did about 350 years ago. His product is JKD and theirs is Wing Chun. Bruce devised JKD to prove to Yip Man and the Wing Chun family he could reach the higher levels of skill in combat, to defeat any opponent, without his knowledge of the complete Wing Chun system.

Bruce was 18 years old with approx. 5 years Wing Chun training when he came to america. There was no continuing in WC as an option. Bruces notorious fight in Oakland left Bruce questioning "Bruces Wing Chun" not necesarily the portion that he had not learned.

Their are many of us that our JKD is more like WCJKD than most LA-JKD. Thats the way it filtered from Bruce to Jimmy to my Sigung and Sifu (father and son). A big differance between JKD and WC is JKD is not a fixed curriculum like WC although many will argue that point.

The WC-JKD base is only the beginning. Jeet Kune Do's end result should be differant for all. That explains why JKD is differant and hard to define. I'd like to know why Wing Chun is so differant amonst so many of the popular instructors.

 

[chinaboxer]

this is an interesting question, since i've been doing both for a very long time, i'll add my 2cents...

start with a solid Wing Chun Foundation and really learn the "body structure" and "why" the movements work.

after this foundation, go and learn Jun Fan JKD and start creating your own "suit" instead of trying to fit into Bruce Lee's suit, or Dan Inosanto's suit, or Ted Wong's suit or anyone else's...

this means that you have to understand the "concepts and principles" of what makes the wing chun structure work BEFORE you start modifying it.

i have a weekly tutorial on Chinese Boxing for those interested at www.thechinaboxer.com

about me...

I have been at the martial arts for over twenty years. Martial Arts has always been an integral part of my life, which began at the age of twelve. My thirst for knowledge has led me to seek out several amazing martial arts instructors and I continue to train, learn and grow; while sharing what works for me with the martial arts community. I have been fortunate enough to train with some great instructors and owe all of my knowledge to them..." I can see far only because I stand on the shoulders of these giants".

- Wing Chun - Hawkins Cheung, Gary Lam
- Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do - Dan Inosanto, Yori Nakamura, Jerry Poteet, Dan Sullivan
- Brazilian Jujitsu - Marcus Vinicius, Lars Wallin
- Shoot Fighting - Yori Nakamura
- Muay Thai / Kickboxing - Benny "the jet" Urquidez, Josh Robinson
- Wrestling - Bryce Karasawa

take care and peace!

Jin

 

[James Kovacich]

I'd agree because of the way that I was trained but many will not. And some will argue that starting at "the end" is the right path.

 

[chinaboxer]

I'd agree because of the way that I was trained but many will not. And some will argue that starting at "the end" is the right path.

starting at the end is like only seeing the "tip of the iceburg" and trying to copy it. but not understanding the huge "body of ice" that supports that tip. People see Bruce Lee's method and try to "copy" his end result, but don't realize the "huge" body of knowledge that led to what everyone sees. in other words, you can't let something go if you don't have it in the first place. anyways, that's my 2cents. i say start at the beginning which is the wing chun structure and why it works.

 

[jkd friend]

starting at the end is like only seeing the "tip of the iceburg" and trying to copy it. but not understanding the huge "body of ice" that supports that tip. People see Bruce Lee's method and try to "copy" his end result, but don't realize the "huge" body of knowledge that led to what everyone sees. in other words, you can't let something go if you don't have it in the first place. anyways, that's my 2cents. i say start at the beginning which is the wing chun structure and why it works.

I agree, theirs a reason why wing chun is the foundation of JKD through all the arts and concepts Bruce Lee studied.