T
theneuhauser
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im going to begin focusing on jin training soon, hopefully. does anyone have experience on this subject, do you have favorite excercises or daily methods?
OP
Chiduce
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- Thread Starter
- #2
What types of jin patterns; Say "bumping jin" etc,? Their are so many patterns.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!
OP
theneuhauser
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- Thread Starter
- #3
i think i should have spelled it as "jing" actually, sorry for the confusion
and i would assume that since there are many, then i should train sticking or neutralizing first, do you agree?
but, again, im not sure about the training methods, so maybe simple excercises will dictate which jings(i think) will be developed before attempting more complex practice.
and i would assume that since there are many, then i should train sticking or neutralizing first, do you agree?
but, again, im not sure about the training methods, so maybe simple excercises will dictate which jings(i think) will be developed before attempting more complex practice.
OP
Chiduce
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- Thread Starter
- #4
You spelled it right. "Jing" means essencein chinese. Neuralizing Jin is good. Squeezing Jin, Pushing Jin, Arcing or Wardoff Jin, Expanding Jin etc, all are good. I would start the with part of the 13 taiji posture jin patterns. These associated jin patterns are; Peng Jin ( Wardoff), Lu Jin (Rollback),, Ji Jin (Press), An Jin ( Push), Cai Jin (Pluck), Lie Jin (Split), Zhou Jin (Elbow-Stroke) , and Kao Jin (Shoulder-Stroke).Originally posted by theneuhauser
i think i should have spelled it as "jing" actually, sorry for the confusion
and i would assume that since there are many, then i should train sticking or neutralizing first, do you agree?
but, again, im not sure about the training methods, so maybe simple excercises will dictate which jings(i think) will be developed before attempting more complex practice.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!
OP
Garyr
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- Thread Starter
- #5
I have a slow discussion going on at my board currently in relation to jin cultivation and combat use. Here is one of my posts, to read more, click Here
Re: Jin Cultivation for combat/types most used
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Sorry Crane,
I suppose we all need to make it a bit more understandable, however its better shown and felt than described. What specifically did you want defined? I think I gave somewhat of an adequate description of "peng" jin in the opening post. What others?
The ape slap could be a loose downward spiraling motion with the whole of the body whipping/coiling it down. In this case I would think It would be refered to as mainly "can si jin" (silk reeling energy), along with chen jin (sinking jin).
"wave-like motion from the bottom up, that causes the strike to hit kind of like a whip."
That is great! Just as the classics tell us in Taiji, the power is rooted in the feet, directed by the waist, and eminated through the fingers. Mechanicly everything must be connected properly to maximize this effect, some refer to the connection as the nine-joints, and the classics tell us they must be "threaded" together.
"Is there anything in the descriptions of jins that talks about changing the direction of the strike after you've made the initial contact "
Im not sure that jin descriptions would be that specific, it is only an energy used, and not a specific method. Many could qualify and be involved in changing direction. Ting jin (listening jin) would be used to sense by touch what the opponent was doing, dong jin (understanding jin) would interpret the move and give you proper reaction in advance. Cun jin (inch jin), or an-jing (push jin) would give you much more energy to apply after contact, this would be known also as a no-inch punch type thing. Also the basic principle of Adhere and stick (zhan nian jin) would qualify. Many other things would be involved such as proper root (pan jin "rooting jin"), zhuan jin (turning or twisting jin)..etc..
Hope that helps,
Gary
Re: Jin Cultivation for combat/types most used
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Crane,
I suppose we all need to make it a bit more understandable, however its better shown and felt than described. What specifically did you want defined? I think I gave somewhat of an adequate description of "peng" jin in the opening post. What others?
The ape slap could be a loose downward spiraling motion with the whole of the body whipping/coiling it down. In this case I would think It would be refered to as mainly "can si jin" (silk reeling energy), along with chen jin (sinking jin).
"wave-like motion from the bottom up, that causes the strike to hit kind of like a whip."
That is great! Just as the classics tell us in Taiji, the power is rooted in the feet, directed by the waist, and eminated through the fingers. Mechanicly everything must be connected properly to maximize this effect, some refer to the connection as the nine-joints, and the classics tell us they must be "threaded" together.
"Is there anything in the descriptions of jins that talks about changing the direction of the strike after you've made the initial contact "
Im not sure that jin descriptions would be that specific, it is only an energy used, and not a specific method. Many could qualify and be involved in changing direction. Ting jin (listening jin) would be used to sense by touch what the opponent was doing, dong jin (understanding jin) would interpret the move and give you proper reaction in advance. Cun jin (inch jin), or an-jing (push jin) would give you much more energy to apply after contact, this would be known also as a no-inch punch type thing. Also the basic principle of Adhere and stick (zhan nian jin) would qualify. Many other things would be involved such as proper root (pan jin "rooting jin"), zhuan jin (turning or twisting jin)..etc..
Hope that helps,
Gary
OP
theneuhauser
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #6
thanks guys,
what im hoping to get here are some examples of how to train those jins- for example, using the fingers, hands, wrists, and arms around a heavy ball to improve your sticking and listening skills. any personal or second hand practice techniques would be really helpful as i would like to add these to my solo practice. thanks all
what im hoping to get here are some examples of how to train those jins- for example, using the fingers, hands, wrists, and arms around a heavy ball to improve your sticking and listening skills. any personal or second hand practice techniques would be really helpful as i would like to add these to my solo practice. thanks all
OP
Garyr
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #7
Do Push hands! Do Da-lu, Do sparring drills....etc...
For listening skills you really need a partener, and one that is close to your level or higher. There are countless two man drills for this, ask a taiji, bagua, or xing-I teacher to show you some.
What other jins did you need excersizes for? What are you doing now? What can you already do? What available instruction do you have?
Gary
For listening skills you really need a partener, and one that is close to your level or higher. There are countless two man drills for this, ask a taiji, bagua, or xing-I teacher to show you some.
What other jins did you need excersizes for? What are you doing now? What can you already do? What available instruction do you have?
Gary
OP
theneuhauser
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- Thread Starter
- #8
my current instructors teach the basics as supplements to their systems. i would like to develope my attributes on my own time (unfortunately i have not yet found an instructor solely devoted to an internal system in the phoenix area) to supplement our basic training. so far that includes forms practice, pushing hands and some applications mainly focusing on qin na and yang type attacks, we have not developed much yin and defensive skills in the class setting and i find that my years of hard fist are haunting my ability to truly yield and stick in the necessary fashions. i guess youre right that push hands or maybe fighting sets and sparring would be most beneficial, but the students cannot stay with me (in humility) and the instructors have their own focus.
so i would like to develop the yielding and the sticking/following to a level where it is almost automatic. other jins that i presume might be useful at my fairly early stage might be listening, sticking, following, and maybe neutralizing or coiling if im ready.
so, lets say you were alone in the woods and wanted to develop these jins, what would you do?
so i would like to develop the yielding and the sticking/following to a level where it is almost automatic. other jins that i presume might be useful at my fairly early stage might be listening, sticking, following, and maybe neutralizing or coiling if im ready.
so, lets say you were alone in the woods and wanted to develop these jins, what would you do?
OP
Shooter
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #9
Practice the silk-reeling exercises whenever you have 10 or 15 minutes of free time.
OP
theneuhauser
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #10
you mean the excercises where you use actual silk cloth wrapped around your hands? tell me more.
P.S. and welcome to martial talk!!!!
is that shooter, like in happy gilmore?
P.S. and welcome to martial talk!!!!
is that shooter, like in happy gilmore?
OP
Shooter
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #11
theneuhauser, thanks for the welcome.
The silk-reeling exercises are a solo set of movements which help you (internalize) gain an acuity to all the fundemental principles of Tai Chi movement and energy management.
It has nothing to do with silk cloth...it's a concept. Basically, you're tracing an imaginary tai-chi diagram with your hands and feet. You can actually draw a couple of them (one clockwise, one counter-clockwise) on some poster-board about 1 foot in dia. and tape them to a wall. Their tops should be about chin height for your hands, and knee height for feet. Your index fingers trace with the hands and the second toe with the feet.
Start with your palm facing up. The palm rolls over as you trace upward and follows the dividing line through the middle from the top, back to the bottom. It contnues tracing the other side, and goes all the way around the circle so that it arrives back at the bottom again. Basically, follow the natural rotation and range of motion in the wrist as you trace the circles. Hold an imaginary tennis ball in your armpits and keep the shoulders relaxed. When you trace with your feet, stand with the toes of your supporting foot pointing directly at the wall, and a variation with the toes 45 degrees to the wall.
There's a lot of required information about its practice that I'm too lazy to type out right now. Have your instructors show you the proper rotations for the basic movements. If they don't know the silk-reeling exercises and you're serious about your solo-training, find someone who does.
:asian:
The silk-reeling exercises are a solo set of movements which help you (internalize) gain an acuity to all the fundemental principles of Tai Chi movement and energy management.
It has nothing to do with silk cloth...it's a concept. Basically, you're tracing an imaginary tai-chi diagram with your hands and feet. You can actually draw a couple of them (one clockwise, one counter-clockwise) on some poster-board about 1 foot in dia. and tape them to a wall. Their tops should be about chin height for your hands, and knee height for feet. Your index fingers trace with the hands and the second toe with the feet.
Start with your palm facing up. The palm rolls over as you trace upward and follows the dividing line through the middle from the top, back to the bottom. It contnues tracing the other side, and goes all the way around the circle so that it arrives back at the bottom again. Basically, follow the natural rotation and range of motion in the wrist as you trace the circles. Hold an imaginary tennis ball in your armpits and keep the shoulders relaxed. When you trace with your feet, stand with the toes of your supporting foot pointing directly at the wall, and a variation with the toes 45 degrees to the wall.
There's a lot of required information about its practice that I'm too lazy to type out right now. Have your instructors show you the proper rotations for the basic movements. If they don't know the silk-reeling exercises and you're serious about your solo-training, find someone who does.
:asian:
OP
theneuhauser
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #12
believe me, ive tried.
but thanks, ive never tried what your describing, as far as i know. please tell us more.
OP
Shooter
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #13
theneuhauser, just do it.
What I described above will get you started. Once you've spent some time experimenting, post back here with any Qs you might have and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
All the best in your training...
What I described above will get you started. Once you've spent some time experimenting, post back here with any Qs you might have and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
All the best in your training...
OP
theneuhauser
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #14
yeah thanks...
it seems like this excercise is focused on empty movement (softness)
does anyone have anything else?
it seems like this excercise is focused on empty movement (softness)
does anyone have anything else?
OP
Shooter
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #15
So you've tried it then....
Wow! You must have really worked through it over the last 2 days to have arrived at such an insightful conclusion. Well done!
OP
theneuhauser
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #16
i have tried it, no disrespect, ive never drawn the tao on the wall before, though.
anybody?
anybody?
