Japanese Martial Arts Demonstration Clip!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Here is a clip with some Japanese Martial Arts being demonstrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnbCGqhfhP0&mode=related&search=

 

[Bigshadow]

Cool video!

 

[Monadnock]

Thanks for that! I liked the Tenshinshoden Katorishinto Ryu part. And the kempo guys taking the throws on the hardwood floors

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Thank you for the link. That was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! I love it when the 3 uke's attack the sensei by placing their hands on his shoulders and then they just stand there while he throws them into a pile. The musketry demonstration was particularly impressive--NOT!

 

[Jose Garrido]

Very nice video. I have not seen this video that included Kondo sensei and Amano sensei.

The Tenshin Shoden Katori Shito-ryu demonstrator looked a lot like Otake sensei. Does anyone know if this is his son?

Jose Garrido

 

[Monadnock]

Thank you for the link. That was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! I love it when the 3 uke's attack the sensei by placing their hands on his shoulders and then they just stand there while he throws them into a pile. The musketry demonstration was particularly impressive--NOT!

I presume you are referring to the Aiki Jujutsu section, which given the few schools in the country, I will not fault you for not understanding. But surely you are aware this video was not posted to be funny.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I presume you are referring to the Aiki Jujutsu section, which given the few schools in the country, I will not fault you for not understanding. But surely you are aware this video was not posted to be funny.

Please don't accuse me of not understanding Aiki-Jujitsu. I studied Aiki-Jujitsu directly from Duke Moore.

As to this section of the video...I do know it was not posted to be funny--that is exactly why it is funny. It's funny because somebody thinks it is good martial arts to be able to knock down 3 human mannequins who are totally cooperative.

 

[Monadnock]

Please don't accuse me of not understanding Aiki-Jujitsu. I studied Aiki-Jujitsu directly from Duke Moore.

As to this section of the video...I do know it was not posted to be funny--that is exactly why it is funny. It's funny because somebody thinks it is good martial arts to be able to knock down 3 human mannequins who are totally cooperative.

Duke Moore's only connection to "Aikijijutsu" is through Richard Kim, who has little to no connection to Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. And your length of study of their version of Aikijujitsu is how long??? Well, not that is matters, it wasn't what you were watching.

I don't mean to come off as a brash Bujinkan guy harping on the spelling of Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu, but generally the spelling difference is a giveaway they aint the same.

Anywho - you can't always watch Koryu kata from the standpoint of "self-defense." If you do, then ya, some stuff can look pretty funny. But don't try and belittle it until you've done it, aquired enough skill and knowledge to critique it, and actually know what you're talking about. Generally there's more going on than meets the eye.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Duke Moore's only connection to "Aikijijutsu" is through Richard Kim, who has little to no connection to Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. And your length of study of their version of Aikijujitsu is how long??? Well, not that is matters, it wasn't what you were watching.

I don't mean to come off as a brash Bujinkan guy harping on the spelling of Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu, but generally the spelling difference is a giveaway they aint the same.

Anywho - you can't always watch Koryu kata from the standpoint of "self-defense." If you do, then ya, some stuff can look pretty funny. But don't try and belittle it until you've done it, aquired enough skill and knowledge to critique it, and actually know what you're talking about. Generally there's more going on than meets the eye.

There may be more going on than meets the eye, but like a movie trailer, a demo usually shows the best moments. If that is their best moment, then my skepticism is justified. To make a better impression of effectiveness, show some live sparring--like Judo or Kendo, or show a real fight clip. Prearranged martial arts demos consisting of walking up, standing still, then falling down don't impress informed people in the 21st Century.

 

[Bigshadow]

Anywho - you can't always watch Koryu kata from the standpoint of "self-defense." If you do, then ya, some stuff can look pretty funny. But don't try and belittle it until you've done it, aquired enough skill and knowledge to critique it, and actually know what you're talking about. Generally there's more going on than meets the eye.

I agree. I actually thought it was a good demonstration of biomechanics, fulcrums, and leverage. It takes good movement to make *that* happen.

 

[Monadnock]

There may be more going on than meets the eye, but like a movie trailer, a demo usually shows the best moments.

Maybe a demo in the 21st century, as you put it. Because demos in the 21st century have more to do with winning trophies, screaming till your red in the face, and ego. And I can say that with a bit of authority because I played the Parker Kenpo circuit for 10 yrs and yes, with all it's wonderful 21st century advancements, still left it.

When some of these old fat kenpo guys get 70 years old and arthritic, just how much slapping do you think they'll be able to pull off? Me, I'd rather be like that man in the video. Systems based on strength are only good as long as you have strength. I'd rather train to move efficiently, borrow energy, and still win. And that only covers the 1% chance I'll ever need to defend myself. This whole argument evades one of the most important traits of the martial arts, which is polishing the spirit. Sadly, the "studios" of the US are more about polishing those egos and trophies.

If that is their best moment, then my skepticism is justified. To make a better impression of effectiveness, show some live sparring--like Judo or Kendo, or show a real fight clip.

That's a big if. I just came back from seeing a demo of Daito Ryu and I can say that the simpler movements I saw would have probably impressed you more. They movements are more pronounced and you can "see" what's going on. Skepticism by the way is certainly OK. Questioning should be allowed anywhere. But this all started because you displayed more than skepticism, so thanks for the red dot, I hope you don't mind the reciprocation.

If all you are looking for is sparring and fight clips, then you've sorta missed the boat on what the Arts are about. But at least I can still respect just about any form of practice. Oh, Judo and Kendo are for the most part Sport. I'll leave it to you to search out discussions on the differences of sport and self defense.

Prearranged martial arts demos consisting of walking up, standing still, then falling down don't impress informed people in the 21st Century.

Again, if you are looking for proof of effectiveness, obviously that wasn't it. As for being informed, well, with what? Being "informed" to you could be "misinformed" to someone else. This whole American "we're smarter than those old school arts" attitude is a bunch of malarky. I had to sit through it long enough while the EPAK guys thought that after 40 years they figured out more than 2000 years of Eastern development. Bull.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Maybe a demo in the 21st century, as you put it. Because demos in the 21st century have more to do with winning trophies, screaming till your red in the face, and ego. And I can say that with a bit of authority because I played the Parker Kenpo circuit for 10 yrs and yes, with all it's wonderful 21st century advancements, still left it.

Screaming demos are even more ridiculous than the ones in this video. A good demo in the 21st century should be about being ALIVE. Showing the art at work against a resisting opponent. That's why I mentioned Judo and Kendo earlier.

When some of these old fat kenpo guys get 70 years old and arthritic, just how much slapping do you think they'll be able to pull off? Me, I'd rather be like that man in the video. Systems based on strength are only good as long as you have strength. I'd rather train to move efficiently, borrow energy, and still win. And that only covers the 1% chance I'll ever need to defend myself. This whole argument evades one of the most important traits of the martial arts, which is polishing the spirit. Sadly, the "studios" of the US are more about polishing those egos and trophies.

What does strength have to do with it? And how does doing a public demonstration polish the spirit? Any public demonstration must be to boost the ego of the practitioner through a demonstration of personal prowess, or as a plea for acknowledgement of the art's merit with the aim of validating the artist's lifestyle choices.

That's a big if. I just came back from seeing a demo of Daito Ryu and I can say that the simpler movements I saw would have probably impressed you more. They movements are more pronounced and you can "see" what's going on. Skepticism by the way is certainly OK. Questioning should be allowed anywhere. But this all started because you displayed more than skepticism, so thanks for the red dot, I hope you don't mind the reciprocation.

If all you are looking for is sparring and fight clips, then you've sorta missed the boat on what the Arts are about. But at least I can still respect just about any form of practice. Oh, Judo and Kendo are for the most part Sport. I'll leave it to you to search out discussions on the differences of sport and self defense.

I certainly have not missed the boat on what the Arts are about. Celebrating dead movement does the art an injustice. Public demonstration is not a step on the path to a polished spirit. So, I believe that these demonstrations do neither.

Again, if you are looking for proof of effectiveness, obviously that wasn't it. As for being informed, well, with what? Being "informed" to you could be "misinformed" to someone else. This whole American "we're smarter than those old school arts" attitude is a bunch of malarky. I had to sit through it long enough while the EPAK guys thought that after 40 years they figured out more than 2000 years of Eastern development. Bull.

I agree with you that the EPAK folks didn't figure out anything truly revolutionary. In fact, they perpetuate many of the fantasy mythology of the the Asian Martial Arts: venerating the past, wearing Japanese pajamas, doing something the way the old master did it, and smacking around compliant partners. And THAT is Bull.

 

[Monadnock]

I agree. I actually thought it was a good demonstration of biomechanics, fulcrums, and leverage. It takes good movement to make *that* happen.

Exactly. And I know you Buj guys take some of the same heat when some turd brings up a Hatsumi video and says it's all an act.

I don't mean to get on a soapbox. But I've been through some questionable schools, some I prefer not to mention. But I've never stopped seeking the truth. And everyone has a personal journey in these arts - hopefully we're all going up to the same mountain top. Anyone who stops and says they've gotten is quite mistaken.

 

[searcher]

Thanks for posting it up.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The above Japanese demonstration video was a demo of traditional japanese technique. Not a competition match or done in an alive manner.
The techniques on the demonstration were performed to show how these specific ryu-ha train their technique to a point of technical proficiency in their respective art forms. That is what the video is trying to portray. Let us continue on and talk about what we enjoyed about their technical performance.

 

[Monadnock]

Good point Brian. In serveral of the arts shown, they were presenting kata. Kata are in a way similar to the predefined Techniques in modern systems. They are a short 2 person excercise put together to practice certain principles. These kata are different than the kata we may think of in Karate systems, which are usually done solo and are much longer.

So technique based systems are actually kind of kata based.

The modern Techniques are done in an ideal phase, for later aiding in the what-if's and freestyle fighting. They burn in proper muscle memory and body mechanics. So do these koryu kata. So they are not there to show street effectiveness. The demo is set up to show the utmost in proper form and discipline.

 

[howard]

Brian, very good points.

I believe that one purpose of demos like the Daito-ryu demo is to help preserve the art for history's sake. This is a very old art, and many in Japan consider it a historical treasure. Even though we no longer have to defend ourselves against sword attacks, or worry about an attack that aims to prevent us from drawing our own sword, the fundamental principles of Daito-ryu are still very effective in self defense.

 

[Makalakumu]

Kata contain principles that you work on and eventually internalize. The movements in the kata ARE really more then they seem and they are far more applicable then just in the matter in which they were shown.

 

[howard]

Kata are in a way similar to the predefined Techniques in modern systems. They are a short 2 person excercise put together to practice certain principles. These kata are different than the kata we may think of in Karate systems, which are usually done solo and are much longer.

Very good point.

In mainline Daito-ryu, kata is the fundamental way of preserving and transmitting the techniques and the principles in the techniques.

I agree, the concept of kata in Jujutsu is different from kata in the Karate arts. I have to admit I was a little confused the first time I heard the term in Jujutsu.

 

[Don Roley]

There may be more going on than meets the eye, but like a movie trailer, a demo usually shows the best moments. If that is their best moment, then my skepticism is justified. To make a better impression of effectiveness, show some live sparring--like Judo or Kendo, or show a real fight clip. Prearranged martial arts demos consisting of walking up, standing still, then falling down don't impress informed people in the 21st Century.

You do not understand the subject matter.

These were not demonstrations of what a real fight is supposed to look like. These were drills that are meant to train the practicioner to do well in combat. Since you can't practice everything in these arts as is without killing someone with a sword, you have to take one part then another and then another and put them all together.

You might notice that one of the first demos had a guy from Araki ryu wrap a chain around another's neck and then the guy with the chain around his neck just stood there until the guy threw him. That is not realistic by any means. But unless you want to take the chance of snapping someone's kneck during practice, you can't just do it as a free for all event. There are ways of training to deal with resistence, but that is not being done at the time in this demo.

I would like to point out to you that these demonstrations were done at a gathering in Japan of people who do these types of things so that they can learn and exchange ideas as well as build a sense of community. Your later comment of,

Any public demonstration must be to boost the ego of the practitioner through a demonstration of personal prowess, or as a plea for acknowledgement of the art's merit with the aim of validating the artist's lifestyle choices.

shows how you look at things based on your experiences in America with no link or knowledge of what is going on in Japan. These demos were not made for the likes of you. The intended audience would be experienced martial artists that did similar stuff. They want to know more about the lessons of the past and see what the ancient forms were. Your comments about demos seem to indicate that you think of them as mainly ways of attracting students. But these were not done at a shopping mall, but at a gathering of like- minded individuals.

As others have said, there is a lot more going on than meets the eye and the people these demos were intended for were not folks that had no experience in training in koryu and were merely surfing the net. As such, they did not go through the explinations and introductions of the underlying stuff so that even you could understand it. I know of schools that do not want their stuff on the internet at all because of this type of problem with matching levels of experience with the medium. But please remember that these guys who were demonstrating were doing so with the expectation of showing what they do to people with far greater ability to catch the subtleties through their experience. Somebody else put it on the internet so that the rest of us could see it- even if we do not understand everything going on behind the curtains.