It's time to promote the Kenpo Grand Masters

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Since the passing of Ed Parker more than a few of the most-senior Kenpo grandmasters have ascended to 10th Dan. Some in the Kenpo community believe that only Mr. Parker deserves 10th Dan and that any other 10th Dan promotions are disrespectful of Mr. Parker's great achievements.

As all who wear the two large red-bands upon their belt are far above me in skill, achievement, experience, and contribution, I am unable and unwilling to dispute any of these promotions. Certainly, these Senior Kenpoists are now and have been making significant contributions to keeping the Kenpo flame going. Certainly these Seniors are continuing to improve their skill, knowledge, and teaching and deserve recognition for this.

As our grandmasters continue to grow in the art, certainly their rank must grow as well. So what do we do to recognize the likes of Mr. Larry Tatum and Mr. Frank Trejo and their peers 10 or 20 years from now if they continue to innovate, contribute and grow at their current pace? It seems that the best way to do this is to bestow additonal rank. I strongly urge the Kenpo community to establish an 11th Dan ranking for the future recognition and promotion of the leaders of our style.

But that brings me back to the point that many Kenpoists believe that only Mr. Parker deserves 10th Dan and that no others can achieve his greatness within Kenpo. If you accept this, and accept my earlier proposition that our current grandmasters need recognition for their future growth, then you must also agree that Mr. Parker should immediately be promoted to 12th Dan.

Furthermore, as our current grandmasters progress further and their disciples eclipse their achievments in the future, additional room needs to be created at the top. As our style continues to prosper, grow and improve, we should see new pinnacles of proficiency. Perhaps every 10 years, we create another Dan level such as 13th, 14th, 15th etc. and continue to posthumously promote Mr. Parker so that he remains one level above the current seniors. By this method, Mr. Parker would be say a 22nd Dan in the year 2100 and maybe a 30th Dan by the year 2200.

I welcome your thoughts on this.

 

[Michael Billings]

Everyone may want to review the KenpoNet thread on this topic before replying.

It can be very tongue-in-cheek on some level, while other's treat it with great seriousness.

I personally think it ludicrous to create new belts higher than 10th. When you are there, you are there ... At that level I am not sure why they, you, or I would need 'reinforcement' or 'acknowledgment' of a higher rank. The matter of titles or positions withing an organization or the KenpoWorld is another issue and open to change.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[XtremeJ_AKKI]

No.

Simply put, Mr. Parker designed this system, as well as established the ranking system he wanted. To promote him to anything outside that established ranking system would be VERY disrespectful to him.

10th Degree Black Belt is the highest rank in the American Kenpo system, period. I think everyone agrees with this. Also, there is only ONE Senior Grandmaster in this art and lineage, and there's no worries of anyone getting their own status confused with that of Mr. Parker's.

Nuff said. :soapbox:

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

I have a seminar certificate in which Professor William K.S. Chow lists his rank as Jugodan. As I said elsewhere, Ed Parker is Ed Parker. He's beyond rank. Nuff said.

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Learned gentlemen: my post is serious and it is toungue in cheek.

The post is serious in that Mr. Parker's special place in Kenpo will be lost over time as many others ascend to 10th Dan. It is toungue in cheek in that the sins of ego, arrogance, and self-importance are threatening to enter into Kenpo and that additional elevation does not really solve those problems.

I was hoping subtley build an argument over time to voice my concerns about the health and future of the Kenpo system, but I see that I must be direct in order not to further waste your time.

While there are few arts as rich as Kenpo, there are even fewer marred by the intense politics of post-Parker Kenpo. Also, Kenpo has become increasingly more inwardly focused since Mr. Parker's death.

Mr. Parker was firmly committed to moving Kenpo forward, improving the system, and incorporating outside influences. For example: In the late 60's, Mr. Parker embraced Bruce Lee and his influence. Mr. Parker was one of Mr. Lee's greatest supporters. I think Mr. Parker learned quite a bit from Bruce Lee. I think that much of Mr. Parker's deep analysis of and post-Bruce-Lee changes to Kenpo are a direct result of his association with Bruce Lee.

Since Mr. Parker's passing, Kenpoists have been doing the opposite. We have been diefieng Mr. Parker, arguing over the immutability of his teachings, over which version of his curriculum is most correct, focusing on ourselves, and ignoring the outside world.

The rest of the Martial Arts community has been truer to Mr. Parker's vision of improvement than has the Kenpo community. Look at the influence that the Ultimate Fighting Championship, MMA, and Gracie Jiu Jitsu has had on the rest of the martial arts. The Gracie family has brought about a change as dramatic as that of Bruce Lee. Many other arts and schools are embracing this change. What are Kenpoists doing? We are debating who was Mr. Parker's most imporant protege and the correct way to do Delayed Sword in the air or on a cooperating partner.

Kenpo leadership is at the cusp of history: Martial arts in the 21st Century are going to be quite different than in the 20th Century. We must decide if we are going to either

A) continue Kenpo's tradition of being the most modern, effective fighting art -- which means opening the system to new ideas and methods and abandoning old notions of dogma and expertise. Or

B) continue Kenpo's tradition of doing exactly what Mr. Parker told us (although fewer and fewer of us are able to agree on exactly what that was) to revere the past, to cannonize techniques that are already 30 or 40 years old, and to start the long and painful process of moving Kenpo from the list of "Modern" (effective) martial arts to the list of "Traditional" (old-fashioned) martial arts.

The discussion on the ranking of our teachers is an important element of this. Who we learn from, what they teach, how we show our respect, and what we reward them for determines the future of our style. If we choose option B above, then we need to create the ranks of 12th Dan (to venerate Mr. Parker) and 11th Dan so that the best of our numerous 10th Dan's can be recognized. If we choose option A above, then I suggest we abandon all of our red-stripe nonsense and focus on making ourselves and our style more competitive.

For me, I agree with Mr. Billings. I also think Option B is ludicrous and I hope that as a community, we can find a way to choose Option A.

 

[Michael Billings]

I understood your intent and agreed whole-heartedly with your attempt to put it forth. I am also glad you are providing a potential framework that has some gray in the middle.

I doubt seriously whether we end up with a clean A or B multiple choice in the future, although perhaps that is what the new IKKA intends to offer. But who is to say that the student promotions or self-promotions, will not continue in years to come, regardless of limitations set now. I am skeptical that any "Senior" would turn down a promotion from his peers, regardless of current belt rank ... although there are notable exceptions to this, Tom Kelly, Sr. and Sigung Steven LaBounty, for years Dennis Conatser and Bryan Hawkins both declined promotion.

Even when a student body promotes the Organization President, would that happen without the Senior's consent? Of course not. Holding the line at 10th, continuing to incorporate and develop Kenpo to it's maximum potential, and the natural evolution of the Art through the Priciples, Concepts, and Theories as provided by Mr. Parker should be our goal. New Theories are put forth, tested, repeated that become Principles or Concepts. I think of Howard Silva's "Stabalized Assistance" as a nice new one incorporating several other principles to acheive an additional result.

By the by ... I think Bruce Lee learned as much, if not more (just to be polite) from Mr. Parker as vice versa. Listen to some of the Seniors talk sometime, or watch a Danny Inosanto instructor and they will be doing a Kenpo technique circa 1962 or so. Checks, are part of JKD now. Nunchaku: An interesting story Bob Liles told us about Bruce Lee flashing nunchaku in the Pasadena school, until Mr. Parker asked if he could hit with them, then the lesson on the tree out back where Bruce Lee made them effective. I believe Mike Pick can tell some good stories about that. There is a great history of sharing in Kenpo and JKD. Not to mention Mr. Parker and everyone in the Chinese Kung Fu community or Wally Jay and his relationship, just to name a few. They all played a part in each other's development.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[satans.barber]

Anyone who spends enough time in the art to get to 10th isn't going togive a **** about rank by that stage anyway, IMHO. It's nothing to do with what you've got hanging round you waist,

Ian.

 

[KenpoDragon]

Old Fat Kenpoka, why would it be necessary for a higher rank for SGM Parker??? He is the founder and creator of A.K.K , isn't that enough??? There is no 11th,12th, or 13th Dan in existence, and for very good reasons. If there were it would never stop, there would be guys out there proclaiming themselves as a 15th Degree Black Belt. I understand that you want to pay respect to Mr.Parker, but honestly it isn't necessary, the man is looked upon as a genius, and one of the greatest martial artists in history. As far as the so called other 10th degree BB go, I don't remember Mr.Parker promoting them to that level, does anybody else????????????????????????

With Respect,
KenpoDragon:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

KenpoDragon:

Your comment on 10th Dan promotions is right on the money. But, it has happened. Several Kenpoists have been promoted to 10th Dan. At least one other now uses the title "Senior Grand Master" that many would reserve for Mr. Parker.

Venerating a deceased system founder and martial arts pioneer is very appropriate. One way to do that is through posthumous promotion. Judo has a 12th Dan and Mr. William Chow had claimed 15th Dan.

All of the current Kenpo Seniors are more proficient than I will ever be and I cannot question their rank. However, I think excessive reverence of even our greatest teachers is terrible and reduces Kenpo's credibility. I would really like to see all of the advanced Dan rankings based on "time-in-the-art", "teaching contribution", and other esoterica disapear and replaced with a rank awarded after "proof-through-competition" method like they use in Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

I've torn the 3 red stripes off my Black Belt -- I rarely wear the belt. And I have no qualms about taking lessons in other styles as a White Belt -- as I am currently doing in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. We need to put our egos aside and embrace the current martial arts reality.

 

[webpage20022003]

i personally think we should stop at 10. Do not go beyond 10 why?

if you want to go to 15, why 15 when we can go to 100 or 10000000000000000 degree black belt?

10 or 15 or 30 you are still grandmaster.

 

[tonbo]

I agree that there are those out there that abuse the 10th degree ranking, and would happily go beyond and on into 15th, 30th, and even 100th degrees, if you instituted them.

However, Ed Parker himself put it quite well. He said (sorry if I have to paraphrase, I don't have the book with me) essentially that rank isn't the do-all end-all: "After you are dead, it doesn't matter. No one asks you what degree of dead you are".

Ed Parker was the founder, and should be respected as the founder. What I say, or what a conglomeration of others says, will never stop anyone from claiming or refusing a 10th degree promotion. I myself might not take it, if ever offered it; however, I would accept the confidence from my peers.

The belt isn't important. 10th degree itself is an accomplishment. Do you prove that you have learned more, if you have a belt with 12 degrees on it? 14? What if you just got a "lifetime achievement" award?

I think that belt ranks should stay where they are. If you want to recognize someone beyond that, give them a "lifetime achievement" award, or an "all-around cool guy" award, or something like that. As you get higher up, you should worry less about what's hanging around your waist, and more about sharing your knowledge with others.

At least, that's my opinion. Is now, and will be, no matter what my rank.

Peace--

 

[roryneil]

Did anyone out there ever play D&D? I remember the highest level player I ever had was 11th. When I met someone who had an 86th level magic user or something like that, I didn't get jealous and wish I had an 86th level. I just thought that person was a joke. I think that's what OFK and others are getting at.
By the way I haven't played D&D in over 15 years. I'm a nerd in other ways now!

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Thank you for understanding my point. We have created a monster with all the Dan promotions. It undermines Kenpo's credibility exactly like the 86th level D&D master. So we should either recognize it for what it is, dress it up and make it look pretty. Or, we should abandon the nonsense altogether.

 

[KenpoDragon]

I agree with you on the stripes thing, I don't wear mine either. For me it doesn't represent knowledge, only people's estimation of how much knowledge you have. I think I know who you are referring to as far as the "new" Grandmaster goes, if he wants to call himself that then so be it. I don't have anything against anyone who wants to give themselves a "title" as long as they truely deserve it. Does Mr.T, well I couldn't say I've never met the man. I personally believe that there should only ever be one SGM in any style, only one creator of the art, everyone else is simply a student of that art.

With honor and respect,
KenpoDragon:asian:

 

[Sigung86]

Pomposity? Nonsense? What sort of nonsense is this Mr. OFK?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Sigung86:

I make no charges of pomposity. As far as nonsense goes, please reread the Black Dot / White Dot theory as clearly described in Infinite Insights Into Kenpo. This should clarify everything you have been missing.

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka

Perhaps every 10 years, we create another Dan level such as 13th, 14th, 15th etc. and continue to posthumously promote Mr. Parker so that he remains one level above the current seniors. By this method, Mr. Parker would be say a 22nd Dan in the year 2100 and maybe a 30th Dan by the year 2200.

i just don't understand why you want to promote a death person to 15 when he no longer contributes anything and do anything????

He created AK but does anybody see him do SEMINAR or Teaching CURRENTLY??? (Please note CURRENTLY)


i can only see 1 legitimate reason why one want to do that and that is i'm 14 since Ed parker is 15. I can put ed parker at 100 and i still want to become 80 degree blackbelt.

i see why people want to do that because there is all the MONEY come.

If you are 10,11,15, i will invite you to the seminar

that's my 2 cents

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Sigung86:

I make no charges of pomposity. As far as nonsense goes, please reread the Black Dot / White Dot theory as clearly described in Infinite Insights Into Kenpo. This should clarify everything you have been missing.

Dear OFK...

Be advised that I have missed nothing! NO! Seriously... I believe that if you look carefully.... I am on yourside... That was, how you say in silicon valley? Tongue in cheek!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Obviously there are 10th degrees out there that do not even begin to fathom some of the hard work, training, and pure genious that other practitioners of the art have done. On the other hand some 10th degrees deserve that rank. One thing is for sure is that Ed parker is dead and because people are still training in Kenpo and goal setting(belt ranking) is still a motivational factor, promotions should probably continue. 10th degrees set the standard for their particular group.
My instructor doesn't hold a 10th but he does head up our particular organization. Rank or not he is our 10th degree and will promote accordingly. I can't fault any organization heads for the descision to wear the double block ( isn't that a beer?). But If an organization holds more than one it sounds like a circle jerk to me.:soapbox:

 

[Kirk]

I'm no one to dispute the rights of anyone to claim a 10th (unless
they've trained the same time as I have LOL), but I really like
what Mr Labounty said at his seminar this past weekend.
He said he'll never wear a 10th, because in HIS opinion, a 10th
means you know it all, and he would rather be a student for the
rest of his life.