Israeli Ninjas

[emiliozapata]

Been poking around youtube and it seems Israel has quite a large number of practicioners of Ninji/utsu, the quality of which looks quite nice. Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

 

[Tanaka]

Been poking around youtube and it seems Israel has quite a large number of practicioners of Ninji/utsu, the quality of which looks quite nice. Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

There is no Ninji/utsu

Just Ninjutsu

 

[MJS]

I assume you're talking about the AKBAN group? I asked Chris Parker about them and he told me a bit about them. Perhaps he'll share his thoughts with the rest of the group.

Of course, I've also had the opportunity to see some great clips of some great Bujinkan members, thanks to the clips they've posted on FB.

 

[Nomad]

Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

This may be directly proportional to the likelihood that they'll need to use their combat arts in real-life situations. The further removed from actual real violence, the more "fantasizing" and LARPing comes into martial arts.

 

[Tanaka]

I assume you're talking about the AKBAN group? I asked Chris Parker about them and he told me a bit about them. Perhaps he'll share his thoughts with the rest of the group.

Of course, I've also had the opportunity to see some great clips of some great Bujinkan members, thanks to the clips they've posted on FB.

I think I've seen the AKBAN group.
It looked like they were using Judo.

 

[MJS]

I think I've seen the AKBAN group.
It looked like they were using Judo.

Like I said, Chris is probably the better one to explain them. I've seen their clips, and they certainly look alot different than the typical Bujinkan clips. I dont believe they're affiliated with the Buj though. Judo, BJJ, not sure what they're doing, but I do see alot of ground work.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Are they the ones who show up in youtube as Ninjitsu Koga Ryu Israel?

 

[Tanaka]

Are they the ones who show up in youtube as Ninjitsu Koga Ryu Israel?

That is not the Akban guys.
But that is another group I've seen on youtube too.

 

[Tez3]

I assume you're talking about the AKBAN group? I asked Chris Parker about them and he told me a bit about them. Perhaps he'll share his thoughts with the rest of the group.

Of course, I've also had the opportunity to see some great clips of some great Bujinkan members, thanks to the clips they've posted on FB.

I'll get the popcorn and comfy chair ready

 

[Carol]

The comfy chair!

[yt]XnS49c9KZw8[/yt]

 

[MJS]

Are they the ones who show up in youtube as Ninjitsu Koga Ryu Israel?

Nope. This is the group.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ninjalla

I'll get the popcorn and comfy chair ready

LOL, yeah I know. Not sure where the OP was going with this post though. Was it a general inquiry? Was it a veiled attempt at bashing the other X-Kans? No idea, but I suppose time will tell.

 

[Omar B]

I think I found one!

 

[pmosiun1]

Been poking around youtube and it seems Israel has quite a large number of practicioners of Ninji/utsu, the quality of which looks quite nice. Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

Yeah, totally awesome compare to the typical ninja martial artist.

 

[Bruno@MT]

The 'ninjutsu' quality of it is rather low I have to say, meaning that they don't seem to put much stock in the underlying concepts which are taught in authentic Ninjutsu. It looks like an MMA-ization of one of the Kans because I saw some things that would probably not have come from anywhere else. Calling that ninjutsu is quite a stretch imo.

That said I don't mean to imply that what they are doing is not effective or useful. It seems they take their training serious and more power to them for that.

 

[Chris Parker]

Been poking around youtube and it seems Israel has quite a large number of practicioners of Ninji/utsu, the quality of which looks quite nice. Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

Like MJS, I'm not really sure what you're wanting to say here.... this is like saying "I saw a good movie the other day, it had dialogue and acting, and was quite funny, which is good for a comedy", without any other information. Do you have a question about them, or are you wanting us to comment on a group (without you specifying who we are to comment on?), or is this an attempt to demonstrate genuine interest re: our latest interactions?

From the sounds of things (although you haven't confirmed this yet for us), this sounds like the Akban group. From memory you linked a clip of theirs a while back, refering to it as "the best taijutsu you had seen", at which point I pointed out how little of it was taijutsu in the first place. (http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72683 pageg 4, post 50+). So are you just trying to re-visit old ground again?

For the record, the AKBAN group is made up of the students of Doron Navon, the first non-Japanese instructor of the Bujinkan (before Steve Hayes, for the record), of Israel. Doron had/has a very strong background in Judo, and is a practitioner of Feldenkrais, so they feature quite strongly in the approach here (Judo-style randori, for instance). The AKBAN group also added in other elements, such as TKD for kicking and striking, which seems to come to the fore in their sparring, and aspects of other arts such as Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu, which comes with more than a little controversy. I'm not sure where they are supposed to have gotten their Katori Ryu from, as I haven't heard of anyone there linked with Otake Sensei, Sugino Sensei, or even Sugawara. My suspicion is that they have simply taken the techniques from Otake Sensei's Deity and the Sword book/VHS series from a few decades ago, as their wiki site has the techniques "demonstrated" by showing the relevant clip from the video. To say that this approach is frowned upon by Koryu persons, and the Katori Shinto Ryu is an understatement to say the least. Katori Shinto Ryu, like most Koryu, is incredibly protective about who can teach (and therefore represent) the Ryu, as well they should be. I sometimes wish all martial arts were like that, but that would lead to far fewer systems being available to most people.... still not a bad thing, though!

The makeup of the AKBAN training is based on the Bujinkan Ryu-ha (most specifically, the Gyokko, Koto, Togakure, Kukishinden, Takagi Yoshin, and Shinden Fudo Ryu, as well as the Ten Chi Jin Ryaku no Maki), combined with TKD and Judo, with the competitive sparring aspect brought over from those influences, and then other things such as Katori Shinto Ryu "tacked on". It therefore is not really Budo Taijutsu (a purely Bujinkan art), Ninjutsu, or anything like it. It is it's own creation, which to my mind is a little schizoid in it's attempts to be all things at once.

But now let's take your opening statement bit by bit, shall we? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that you are now wanting to actually learn about these arts, and your post here is a way to ask for our take on the (undefined) group you are talking about. Ready? Okay!

Been poking around youtube and it seems Israel has quite a large number of practicioners of Ninji/utsu, the quality of which looks quite nice.

As Tanaka said, it is Ninjutsu. One "I", two "U's", not the other way around. To be taken seriously, especially after first having been corrected on this nearly two years ago (http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1103046#post1103046 post 9), I highly recommend you take this on board.

Okay, now to the second thing in this sentence. The "quality" looking good to you really, to be frank, doesn't mean anything. You are, from all indications in your entire posting history, completely ignorant of anything to do with Ninjutsu, and that includes your understanding of what is quality or not. So what you really mean is that the methods of training appeal to you. That's great, but that doens't mean that you are drawn to the Ninjutsu aspects, rather to the non-Ninjutsu/X-Kan aspects of their training (which is really what I said when you first brought the AKBAN group here, as seen in the thread linked earlier).

Next, it really has to be said that you may be misinterpretting things. The AKBAN group has a large you-tube presence (over 700 clips, from memory....), but that doesn't mean that there is a larger number of practitioners in these arts in Israel over anywhere else. Just that they are more vocal, internet-wise...

But to get back to why you have posted this here in the first place, er, why have you posted this here in the first place? Are you wanting to find someone training like this near you, or are you wanting to move to Israel to train with them? Because really, the AKBAN group is the only place you will get AKBAN-style training. And one of the big reasons you won't get such training elsewhere is that most of the disparate elements actually contradict each other, so most who are seriously wanting to just focus on training the Ninjutsu/Budo Taijutsu aspects will focus on that. You really do seem to be drawn to things that you simply won't find in most X-Kan schools, or anything related to authentic Ninjutsu.

Emphasis is placed on realistic training and application it seems. Interesting how that society always seems to pare combat arts down to their most viable forms, this example being sort of a Krav Maga meets Bujinkan.

Okay, I'm going to try to break this down for you here. "Realistic training" is not the be-all end-all of all martial art methods. Even if it is, you need to be very clear as to exactly what that would entail for your environment (the military will have different needs than a security person, which is different again to a civilian, whose needs will change depending on the situations they are likely to find themselves in, if they may have their small children with them, the local laws regarding self defence and assault, and far more). So "realistic training" is different for different needs. TKD point sparring is very realistic training if you are training for point-sparring competitions.

I'm going to assume, though, that you are talking about self defence as "realistic training". Leaving aside that most seem to have little idea what that actually entails (and your given background has little to none in it as well, so you know), you really do need to understand that when you are training in a traditional/classical system, such as the X-Kan systems (or Katori Shinto Ryu), then realistic self defence is not the real highest level goal. It is much easier to take the skill sets of the Bujinkan traditions and generate self defence skills and training than it is from, say, Katori Shinto Ryu, but the fact remains that the classical skills are not designed for modern attacks, environments, situations, assaults, or more. So to take these arts and train them for self defence, you must first move away from what they actually are (for the record, I teach the classical traditions as "martial arts", and "self defence" as a seperate, but related, area of study).

So if you are looking for something geared only towards modern self defence, don't look to ancient traditions. And if you still think you can create your own version of an art you have no experience in or understanding of, you are still deluding yourself.

Oh, Tez, what do you mean, a comfy chair? You aren't by any means trying to indicate that I perhaps tend towards the long-winded and verbose from time to time, are you? Okay, fair point....

 

[Bruno@MT]

As Tanaka said, it is Ninjutsu. One "I", two "U's", not the other way around.

Quite correct. That would be nunjutsi and we can all agree that that would sound silly

Oh, Tez, what do you mean, a comfy chair? You aren't by any means trying to indicate that I perhaps tend towards the long-winded and verbose from time to time, are you? Okay, fair point....

Not from time to time, no .

 

[emiliozapata]

Chris, you read far too much into a simple posting, but your depth of knowledge is quite impressive.

One day I found a stone on a beach, it shimmered a pale green and was crystal like in structure. Taking it home, I named it greenstone and considered it a valuable and desirable gem. Along came a friend who said that my gem was simply a rock and had no value to me as a "greenstone". He stated that only his emerald was valuable as a gem. I asked him why this was, and he said because that is what he was told. It had been written and deemed by others, and had always been this way.

His belief system was dictated by the whims of others, his mind closed to possibilities. I felt sorry for this friend, because his true growth as a spiritual being would always be dictated by the "knowledge" of others, as told to him. His ability to discover and imagine new possibilities was contained within the walls of dogma. He was as a root bound tree, incapable of growth or fruiting.

 

[Chris Parker]

Uh, okay.....

So you aren't going to answer any of the questions posed then? Is this the AKBAN group, or another one you're refering to? What were you hoping for by posting this here? With no reference or context we can't definitively comment at all, you know. It's like the movie similie I used earlier, "it was funny, which is good if it was a comedy".... of course, if the movie the hypothetical person was thinking of wasn't a comedy, and was supposed to be a moving drama, the comedy could very well simply be out of place.

Oh, and while I'm all for philosophical musings, your story about a rock/gem really has little place if you're using it as a metaphor for your "ninjitsu" again. I may call my car a spaceship, if someone corrects me, they don't have a lack of imagination, they have a sense of reality. It is really not what you are painting it to be. His beliefs are not "dictated by the whims of others", his knowledge of geological formations and structures are based on the accurate classification of such things. Same when it comes to Ninjutsu (and other martial arts, for that matter). It is not a case of being locked into any form of dogma, it is more that others understand the accurate classification of such things, which is something that you are still lacking. Okay?

 

[emiliozapata]

well maybe i should move to australia and join ninjutsu australia---


What do you need to start ?
To start your ninjutsu training all you need to do is pay your enrolment fee, and the fee for your first class.
You can buy your uniform any time within the first month.
And your training weapons can be purchased as you need them.

Too bad my funds are devoted elsewhere, until then I will continue to walk my own path towards MA proficiency. Especially since I can train in the Modern Army Combatives Program all I want for free.

 

[MJS]

well maybe i should move to australia and join ninjutsu australia---


What do you need to start ?
To start your ninjutsu training all you need to do is pay your enrolment fee, and the fee for your first class.
You can buy your uniform any time within the first month.
And your training weapons can be purchased as you need them.

Too bad my funds are devoted elsewhere, until then I will continue to walk my own path towards MA proficiency. Especially since I can train in the Modern Army Combatives Program all I want for free.

Then really, why are you posting then? I mean, if you're not intending to train in any of the legit X-Kans, legit defined as the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan, and you're not happy with the way they all run their groups, then why post and talk about them?

Also, I'd like to remind you, seeing that you, along with everyone else here, agreed to the forum rules. Last I checked, trolling and intentionally starting threads to incite issues, are against the rules. If you're going to actually post anything productive here, fine. If you're here to stir the pot, I suggest you think twice, as your time here will most likely be short lived.