Is your school affiliated with a federation?

[ralphmcpherson]

My school up until 10 years ago was affiliated with the wtf until the powers that be in my school decided they didnt like the direction the wtf was going in. For the last 10 years we have not been affiliated with anything , I suppose you would say we are a stand alone tkd club. Our master is an 8th dan from korea but has been in australia for about 30 years and has a high emphasis on self defence as opposed to competition, sport etc. For this reason we dont even compete with other clubs , we have about 2000 - 3000 members and we have an annual club championship where we compete against others from our club. About the only disadvantage I see is that my rank means nothing outside of my club as we have no affiliation with a tkd body , this doesnt bother me though as I never did tkd for belts I did it for fitness , flexibility and to feel good physically. I do wonder though , are there many stand alone clubs or are most affiliated with an organisation of sorts? Knowing that most of you train in countries other than mine I was just curious as to where most clubs stand on this.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I would guess that most clubs are "Independant" meaning they have no affilliation to any org, or are part of a very small org.

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer. It depends what you are looking for.

 

[Twin Fist]

a portable cert, like you get from a large org doesnt convey skill. YOU do that. If you want your rank to mean something outside your club, then make sure everyday that you re-earn that rank

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I would guess that most clubs are "Independant" meaning they have no affilliation to any org, or are part of a very small org.

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer. It depends what you are looking for.

I originally thought that most clubs were independent and then when I was looking at other clubs in my area they just seem to be affiliated with the wtf , the australian tkd federation , the queensland tkd federation etc and my club seemed to be the only one I know of that is "independent". Its good to hear that there are others out there. As I said in my original post rank doesnt worry me but I had concerns that if I ever moved and wanted to do tkd elsewhere technically my black belt would mean nothing and Id have to go and do all the coloured belt training all over again which is what happens when someone from another club joins our club , we may put them straight to 6th gup but after that they have to go through all the belts again.

 

[NPTKD]

My school up until 10 years ago was affiliated with the wtf until the powers that be in my school decided they didnt like the direction the wtf was going in. For the last 10 years we have not been affiliated with anything , I suppose you would say we are a stand alone tkd club. Our master is an 8th dan from korea but has been in australia for about 30 years and has a high emphasis on self defence as opposed to competition, sport etc. For this reason we dont even compete with other clubs , we have about 2000 - 3000 members and we have an annual club championship where we compete against others from our club. About the only disadvantage I see is that my rank means nothing outside of my club as we have no affiliation with a tkd body , this doesnt bother me though as I never did tkd for belts I did it for fitness , flexibility and to feel good physically. I do wonder though , are there many stand alone clubs or are most affiliated with an organisation of sorts? Knowing that most of you train in countries other than mine I was just curious as to where most clubs stand on this.

First understand that no school can be affiliated with the WTF or be a member. Only nations can be members of the WTF. ( for now) so you really never were in the position that you think your in. My school promotes under Kukkiwon and we are a USTA & AAU club, but I don't belong to the big aasocation that my Grandmaster has. I really don't like to agree with twin fist.... but I am starting to see his point.

 

[Shaderon]

Many moons ago our school used to be affiliated with the ITF. Now we have left the UKITF because of all the disagreements within the 3 ITFs and various other politics which I won't go into.

We are still a member of the British TaeKwon-Do Council though and with nearly 4000 members (in the UK that's not bad at all) are one of the largest TKD associations in the country.

Apart from being in the BTC, which everyone who practices TKD in Britain should be anyway, we are independant.

Even though we are independant, not a single person in our association believes that our rank means nothing outside our association. Our Master was one of the first 12 people in the UK to be a black belt in TaeKwon-Do and in turn his Instructor was one of General Choi's 12 original masters and fought in Korea with him.

Who is the Kukkiwon or anyone for that matter to tell us our ranks mean nothing? Who are they to tell ANYONE that thier ranks mean nothing?

If you have worked hard for your rank, have the technical ability, have the dedication and love what you are doing, NO-ONE has any right to tell you that your achievements mean nothing. You earn that rank through blood, sweat, injury, recovery, stress, strain, love, dedication and exhaustion. You earn it the same as anyone who has paid a membership fee to some body that decides they are the final word in who has the right to a rank.

I refuse to bow to that. I could be 1 student serving under 1 Instructor and if I have done enough to earn a rank I believe that rank is mine as long as I did a fair test.

If I ever had to move and go to another association I would not accept being put with the white belts, I'd walk out and find another. I'm a first degree black belt and I am proud of my Dobok with blood stains on the back of the leg from when I cut my heel open breaking in a grading and still tried again anyway.

I earned my rank and no-one can ever say I haven't. I don't care who they are.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I do wonder though , are there many stand alone clubs or are most affiliated with an organisation of sorts?

There are many independent Taekwon-Do clubs through out the U.S., where I am from.

But I doubt one could say one way or the other if most schools are affiliated with a particular federation or are independent because I don't know of any way to actually keep track of that information. Who would be interested in gathering the statistics of which schools are members of which organizations, let alone how many Taekwon-Do schools there are in the first place?

There are some organizations that are obviously larger than others, but ultimately you have to depend on the records that they keep themselves if you are interested in finding out how many schools belong to them. And how would you ever get that informaiton for independent schools?

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

Even though we are independant, not a single person in our association believes that our rank means nothing outside our association. Our Master was one of the first 12 people in the UK to be a black belt in TaeKwon-Do and in turn his Instructor was one of General Choi's 12 original masters and fought in Korea with him.

I was wondering if you'd share who your instructor's instructor is. Do you mean he was in the Korean War with Gen. Choi?

Just curious.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[NPTKD]

Who is the Kukkiwon or anyone for that matter to tell us our ranks mean nothing? Who are they to tell ANYONE that thier ranks mean nothing?


Who is saying that! The Kukkiwon? I don't understand?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Many moons ago our school used to be affiliated with the ITF. Now we have left the UKITF because of all the disagreements within the 3 ITFs and various other politics which I won't go into.

We are still a member of the British TaeKwon-Do Council though and with nearly 4000 members (in the UK that's not bad at all) are one of the largest TKD associations in the country.

Apart from being in the BTC, which everyone who practices TKD in Britain should be anyway, we are independant.

Even though we are independant, not a single person in our association believes that our rank means nothing outside our association. Our Master was one of the first 12 people in the UK to be a black belt in TaeKwon-Do and in turn his Instructor was one of General Choi's 12 original masters and fought in Korea with him.

Who is the Kukkiwon or anyone for that matter to tell us our ranks mean nothing? Who are they to tell ANYONE that thier ranks mean nothing?

If you have worked hard for your rank, have the technical ability, have the dedication and love what you are doing, NO-ONE has any right to tell you that your achievements mean nothing. You earn that rank through blood, sweat, injury, recovery, stress, strain, love, dedication and exhaustion. You earn it the same as anyone who has paid a membership fee to some body that decides they are the final word in who has the right to a rank.

I refuse to bow to that. I could be 1 student serving under 1 Instructor and if I have done enough to earn a rank I believe that rank is mine as long as I did a fair test.

If I ever had to move and go to another association I would not accept being put with the white belts, I'd walk out and find another. I'm a first degree black belt and I am proud of my Dobok with blood stains on the back of the leg from when I cut my heel open breaking in a grading and still tried again anyway.

I earned my rank and no-one can ever say I haven't. I don't care who they are.

I completely understand and thats how I feel about my rank. The problem these days is that there are so many mcdojos around. My school is very large but is mainly based in my capital city. My fear has been that if I moved to another part of australia for work , a change etc and I walk into a new club and show them my certificates to prove I am a black belt , I wouldnt blame them for telling me its not worth the paper its written on as there are so many clubs these days that just hand out black belts to anyone who wants one after 18 months.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If I ever had to move and go to another association I would not accept being put with the white belts, I'd walk out and find another. I'm a first degree black belt and I am proud of my Dobok with blood stains on the back of the leg from when I cut my heel open breaking in a grading and still tried again anyway.

I earned my rank and no-one can ever say I haven't. I don't care who they are.

My attitude was exactly the opposite. I went to college as a red belt. 2 promotions away from Black. Found a school that taught the same patterns, but I was ITF and they were WTF. Since it was 1975 most still had not changed curiculum. The Instructor had Gneral Choi's book on his desk. I told him I needed a place to train while at school and I would be happy to wear a white belt if that is what he wanted. I think he appreciated the attitude and after watching my technique he placed me accordingly.

BUT when I went home and trainedwith my instructor I tested twice over the summer, and graded for BB. When I returned he would not let me wear the BB. OK with me so long as I could train. He even sent me to teach and run classes at one of his schools. He wanted me to pay $ to test for BB with him. I refused, and jsut used the Dojang to keep my technique sharp.

 

[NPTKD]

My attitude was exactly the opposite. I went to college as a red belt. 2 promotions away from Black. Found a school that taught the same patterns, but I was ITF and they were WTF. Since it was 1975 most still had not changed curiculum. The Instructor had Gneral Choi's book on his desk. I told him I needed a place to train while at school and I would be happy to wear a white belt if that is what he wanted. I think he appreciated the attitude and after watching my technique he placed me accordingly.

BUT when I went home and trainedwith my instructor I tested twice over the summer, and graded for BB. When I returned he would not let me wear the BB. OK with me so long as I could train. He even sent me to teach and run classes at one of his schools. He wanted me to pay $ to test for BB with him. I refused, and jsut used the Dojang to keep my technique sharp.

Wow! good for you!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

My attitude was exactly the opposite. I went to college as a red belt. 2 promotions away from Black. Found a school that taught the same patterns, but I was ITF and they were WTF. Since it was 1975 most still had not changed curiculum. The Instructor had Gneral Choi's book on his desk. I told him I needed a place to train while at school and I would be happy to wear a white belt if that is what he wanted. I think he appreciated the attitude and after watching my technique he placed me accordingly.

BUT when I went home and trainedwith my instructor I tested twice over the summer, and graded for BB. When I returned he would not let me wear the BB. OK with me so long as I could train. He even sent me to teach and run classes at one of his schools. He wanted me to pay $ to test for BB with him. I refused, and jsut used the Dojang to keep my technique sharp.

Thats a great attitude , I wish more people thought like that. My only issue with wearing a coloured belt again would be the lack of challenges. Since being a black belt I have found the things Im working on very challenging which keeps me focused and interested , to go over stuff Ive already learnt doing the coloured belts again would be a bit of a let down for me personally.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Thats a great attitude , I wish more people thought like that. My only issue with wearing a coloured belt again would be the lack of challenges. Since being a black belt I have found the things Im working on very challenging which keeps me focused and interested , to go over stuff Ive already learnt doing the coloured belts again would be a bit of a let down for me personally.

I think it would work like this if the instructor was worth a darn. If they respected your talents they would want to keep you around and train you accordingly. Also, if your talents were at a level that exceeded the rank they made you train at you would in fact be making your seniors at the school, the instructors students look bad by comaprison.

So, if the instructor is trying to discourage you and has no problem making their own students look bad, why the heck would you want to stick around?

 

[Twin Fist]

I walk into a new club and show them my certificates to prove I am a black belt , I wouldnt blame them for telling me its not worth the paper its written on

thats when you do your forms, then put the gear on, and crack someone in the head.

if they still doubt you, either :
1) they suck, and you dont want to train there
2) you suck, and you should drop a few ranks

this is not rocket science

 

[ralphmcpherson]

thats when you do your forms, then put the gear on, and crack someone in the head.

if they still doubt you, either :
1) they suck, and you dont want to train there
2) you suck, and you should drop a few ranks

this is not rocket science

Its not always that simple. My club , for instance, uses palgwe forms and I know them all back to front. I dont , however, know the first thing about taeguek forms which the majority of clubs over here use and for me to be a black belt at another club they would expect me to know them all and do them well. I know sparring can vary greatly from one club to another as point sparring olympic style is nothing like the way we spar at my club. I agree with you that I could find a club that would honour my rank but it would take a bit of shopping around and is not as simple as just walking in anywhere. I know at my club the seniors dont care how good someone is or how long the've trained for they will never start at our club and go straight to black belt , they may go straight to 6th gup if they're lucky but that would be the highest they would start at.

 

[Twin Fist]

they are not gonna care if you know thier forms, they are only gonna care how well you do YOUR forms.

if they want you to know thier forms, then they fall under cat (1) of my list.

 

[shesulsa]

We don't call ourselves a "federation." In fact, we don't call ourselves much of anything except 'family.'

 

[ralphmcpherson]

they are not gonna care if you know thier forms, they are only gonna care how well you do YOUR forms.

if they want you to know thier forms, then they fall under cat (1) of my list.

cheers, thats helpful to know , I hope there are a lot of clubs like that. At my club it is very important for a black belt to know all the forms taught by the club as black belts are expected to spend time with the coloured belts helping them with their form and black belts demonstrate the forms at gradings and at demos , so if someone came along and didnt know the palgwe forms it would be difficult for them to fit in unless they went and learnt all the forms taught by our club.

 

[Earl Weiss]

they are not gonna care if you know thier forms, they are only gonna care how well you do YOUR forms.

if they want you to know thier forms, then they fall under cat (1) of my list.

Then put me in Category 1. While I let any visitor wear the belt of whatever rank they have from wherever, they will not be able to advance unless or until they know all material for their current rank and below.

If I award someone rank they need to earn it by knowing this material. At any time they may need to be able to show that they earned it by assisting and teaching junior students, and if they travel, being able to demonstrate their knowledge level. This material includes not only forms, but Ho Sin Sul, Step Sparring, required knowledge, Fundamental techniques and sparring.