Is Wing Chun being used the wrong way in fighting?

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by geezer, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    This is my experience as well...when it comes to grappling I'm am particular with who I roll with because of the potential for injuries.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed, though oddly, I'm much more brazen about courting the latter than getting bruised on my face.
     
  3. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    Nobody likes getting whacked in the chops.
     
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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Nobody likes a dislocated finger, either. I think we’d all rationally choose a bruised face (a few days of healing) over a finger that might never be quite right. Emotionally, though, I tend to avoid the bruised face much more vigorously.
     
  5. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Well... to keep it fair you need to compare apples to apples. So dislocated finger vs broken jaw.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Those would be more comparable, but I’ve never seen a broken jaw happen in the dojo. Broken hands, broken feet, dislocated fingers and toes- but no broken jaw, just bruises and an occasional bloody nose.
     
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  7. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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    The Sifu’s fight workshop incorporated uppercuts, jabs, crosses and being light on your feet. No rooted stance. It was boxing mixed with WC. The WC element was paks, chain punches and other WC blocks. I was surprised how much non WC was used but at the same time I wasn’t because I know how he tends to think.
     
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  8. James.H1515

    James.H1515 White Belt

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    How long have you been studying WC? In my lineage it also has uppercut jabs and crosses but it's all hidden in the form for example in chun kiu shows a clear uppercut crosses are in the drills also jabs are just straight line punch with wo sau hand.
    Not taken from boxing but it's genuine wing chun I'm just speaking for my lineage.
    The only thing different is the light on your feet that seems different.


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  9. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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    I haven’t been studying long at all. 3 months. I’ve heard others say what you said.
     
  10. James.H1515

    James.H1515 White Belt

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    Well 3 months is very very early stage. The difference between WC and some thing like boxing is that the WC art is very complicated and has a lot of different hand shape and structure I mean if you trained for 3 years I would still consider that a beginner level the understanding of WC is difficult.
    I'm not saying boxing is not difficult but different by the means of you learn like 6 different punches and practice them not including body and foot work but to compare to WC you have got different punches and palm, fingers and hand elbow moves much more than boxing.
    Don't forget WC is a system so if you and me had the same teacher our art would or might look different.
    The techniques will change depending on your opponent so for example if against a boxer type person who retracts their hands you would have to use a lot of goh sau techniques not saying it's easy but you won't try use sticky concept unless your on that level.
    At your 3 months stage I wouldn't expect to be learning much tho as in just very basic structure work and your single hand drills etc.
    Also the reason why a lot of WC practitioners lose fights is because 1 they collapse under pressure because they have so much techniques to practice and don't train enough in pressure fighting but when you fully understand the system it is very effective.
    Boxers on the other hand learn their techniques and they practise by sparring that's why boxers are so good.
    I guess every art is good but depends on person using it.
    If you have doubt in your techniques you would most likely lose in the fight.


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  11. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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    My opinion doesn't have much weight being I've only studied for 3 months. However, I do often wonder if the system itself is just not as good. Should it take that long to really be effective? I'd also expect to see more people using it in real videos. Those are sparse. WSL said he only ever used 3 of the WC moves to win most of his fights.

    Boxers are good also because they move well, throw fast punches and are conditioned. But the simplicity of boxing, it in terms of limited punches and having no kicks, can also be viewed as a benefit.
     
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  12. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    That video is like most technique demonstrations. It sets up the scenario, and the practitioner knows the space and what is coming. Based on that, you can win a fight with a right-handed block.
     
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  14. Cephalopod

    Cephalopod Green Belt

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    Actually I disagree with that.
    Assuming that the guys he selected are not actually paid actors, they are anything but compliant ukes.
    True, he controlled certain variables: they all wear gloves and go for the face; he has enough room to move around and evade.
    While he did not exactly choose giants to go up against, he had no idea what patterns and speeds they would come on with.
    I was damn impressed by his ability to control distance and the timing of his bobs and weaves.
    In the ways of youtube demonstrations I'd say that this was pretty darn fine.
     
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  15. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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    I’d say it’s something worthwhile to practice! :)
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    breaking my hand was pretty anoying by the way. (grappling)
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is really akward to try to block and punch at the same time. I do it in boxing but it has a limited use. I just cant see combinations coming fast enough to get the positions in time for them to make them work.

    Head movement means I can punch with both hands where blocking and punching means I can only punch with one.

    Now the sneaky trick with head movement is I can move to where they probably are not going to hit me. And that means I can be moving there before they attack. Rather than seeing a punch working out a defence then seeing the next punch and so on.

    There is a whole bunch of really important things like timing and cardio and creating openings that a lot of martial arts do not spend enough time on. Believing that technique is worth more bang for buck.

    You get this with the groin kick crowd a lot.

    The correct technique for groin kicking probably. I dont know because it doesnt matter that much.


    MMA groin kicks which I imagine were not trained and have no specific technique.


    And my view is that I will have better results learning to set up any kick rather than train the perfect groin kick. In that I will out groin kick a groin kick specialist.

    All of this means that the training they are doing in the top video is time wasting.(mostly)

    And why sports fighters are good at fighting in months that take other systems years.
     
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  18. James.H1515

    James.H1515 White Belt

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    Yes I agree boxing is effective like I said because of the simplicity of the techniques, you have to remember martial arts take very long time to master! if u want an effective art that you can use quickly I might suggest studying boxing or muay Thai or sumfin similar.
    When studying some thing you must have the heart to learn or why bother learn at all if in doubt ask the teacher or move to an art that makes you feel comfortable.
    WC takes years to refine and practice. On YouTube most wing chun practitioners seem to have very little knowledge or can not apply WC when pressured. All I see on WC are chain punches and that's all that's only one technique out of many.
    Remember WC is very effective as well because it has fast direct moves but very complicated forms that take long time to master.


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  19. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    :D new word of the day hahaha
     
  20. James.H1515

    James.H1515 White Belt

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    The thing is when do you or ever seen some one punch two hands at same time any way? Even if you block there's different types of blocks btw you can retract to punch

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