Is there any vulnerability in Wing Chun?

PiedmontChun

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Just for practicality's sake, I would say:
1) WC/WT/VT movements are very linear (even accounting for the BJ set). That itself is not a weakness; it is a strength since a straight line is usually the most efficient. However, if in training you become overly accustomed to that type of linear striking from your partner / opponent, and have no exposure to other arts that have much more circular movement, or even just some low level boxing / brawling that doesn't adhere to that...... I think it could be a hole in your fighting ability. Not in the system itself, but in a training method. This almost falls in the same category as not training with intent, or not sparring with your WC. Very narrow training habits, or bad training habits can hinder it from being effective.
2) The biggie. WC/WT/VT does not equip you when a fight goes to the ground, or even in deep clinching range. The various grappling arts like wrestling, Judo / Sambo, BJJ, catch wrestling...... even at a low level, have solutions for this. Again, I don't think the system itself is the issue. I don't fault a screwdriver for not being a good hammer as well. You likely need both in your tool belt. I think it makes more sense to try and cross train two complementary arts than to try and graft some grappling knowledge onto WC. Grappling also lets you overpower someone without having to break their nose or knock them out as well, which can be useful.

Contrary to what some say, I don't think WC lacks long range solutions. If you spar, and have training that starts outside chi-sau range.... you are training strategy against a long range striker. There's no shame in admitting WC is excellent at short range and therefore wanting to get into that range when fighting. Mixing it up with some TKD or other kung fu styles that kick a lot more wouldn't hurt though.
 

DanT

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The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.

Let me start with a metaphor...

Does the crocodile complain that it can't leap on top of people like a tiger?

When a crocodile and a tiger fight, neither of the animals are stupid.... the crocodile tries to drag drag drag the tiger into the water, and the tiger tries to drag drag drag the crocodile out of the water.

The crocodile doesn't need to jump on top of people, it just charges forward and BANG, it bites your leg off! Does it complain? Does it say, "oh, I wish I knew how to leap in the air!" NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Because it is so skilled at is SPECIALIZATION, namely, its bite.

Same thing with wing chun. Go find yourself a real wing chun Sifu, one who's fist is like iron, and who doesn't need anything else because the moment they decide to fight, BOOM you get hit by the punch, just like a crocodile bite, and the moment you try to change the range, they pull you back in and KEEP YOU IN THE RANGE THEY WANT YOU IN. Just like a crocodile.
 

Martial D

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The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.

Let me start with a metaphor...

Does the crocodile complain that it can't leap on top of people like a tiger?

When a crocodile and a tiger fight, neither of the animals are stupid.... the crocodile tries to drag drag drag the tiger into the water, and the tiger tries to drag drag drag the crocodile out of the water.

The crocodile doesn't need to jump on top of people, it just charges forward and BANG, it bites your leg off! Does it complain? Does it say, "oh, I wish I knew how to leap in the air!" NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. Because it is so skilled at is SPECIALIZATION, namely, its bite.

Same thing with wing chun. Go find yourself a real wing chun Sifu, one who's fist is like iron, and who doesn't need anything else because the moment they decide to fight, BOOM you get hit by the punch, just like a crocodile bite, and the moment you try to change the range, they pull you back in and KEEP YOU IN THE RANGE THEY WANT YOU IN. Just like a crocodile.
In an ideal world I guess. In reality the tiger will just pluck the crock out of the water and eat them at their leisure, because the tiger is very dangerous in the water too.

Make with this , metaphorically, what you will.

 

Lobo66

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The problem is, DanT, that we are human and we 1) make mistakes and 2) can be manipulated, fooled, surprised etc.

Over-specialization does not allow you a high degree of adaptability should the situation not go your way.
 

KPM

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The key to being proficient in a single style is having the ability to command the fight and FORCE the fight to go your way.

---Counting on being able to force something to go your way is not a very good strategy. You are almost guaranteed to fail at some point, because nothing is 100%.

Same thing with wing chun. Go find yourself a real wing chun Sifu, one who's fist is like iron, and who doesn't need anything else because the moment they decide to fight, BOOM you get hit by the punch, just like a crocodile bite, and the moment you try to change the range, they pull you back in and KEEP YOU IN THE RANGE THEY WANT YOU IN. Just like a crocodile.

---And what happens when that doesn't work? Better have a back-up plan! Crocodiles miss plenty of "bites" when their target is just a bit further out. That's like saying all a good BJJ guy needs to know is ground-fighting. BJJ figured out they better also be able to function on their feet a long time ago!
 

DanT

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The problem is, DanT, that we are human and we 1) make mistakes and 2) can be manipulated, fooled, surprised etc.

Over-specialization does not allow you a high degree of adaptability should the situation not go your way.
While I agree you have to be dynamic and have the ability to adapt, having a specialization with a particular style is what will make you more dangerous than being a jack of all trades.
 

DanT

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A crocodile won't jump because that's it's limitation, so you are comparing this with Wing Chun, doesn't make sense at all.
It's simply a metaphor, showing how limitation for the sake of limitation is not always a bad thing.
 

Lobo66

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Being a "jack of all trades" is as dangerous as being over-specialized in one area. This is not what I am advocating.

I, personally, focus on specialising in Ving Tsun and supplementing my training with grappling and BJJ.
Because I know that sometimes, no matter how skilled at VT I am, I can't always determine the conditions of or dominate the fight.
 

Cephalopod

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don't do it, don't do it.....arghhh I can't stop myself
In an ideal world I guess. In reality the tiger will just pluck the crock out of the water and eat them at their leisure, because the tiger is very dangerous in the water too.

Make with this , metaphorically, what you will.

THAT'S NOT A TIGER!!!!!

Sorry. Pretty badass cat tho'. My lunch was considerably easier to procure.
 

Bigsarg

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I am not sure as some of the remarks in the forum are justifiable due to lack of proper understand of the art. Like every art there is room for improvement.


Every art has its great gifts to the martial art community. The Wing Chung Dummy is the best training tool I have used. I use it for precision while applying American Kenpo techniques.
If you use the formula for force:
Muscle relaxation builds speed
Speed + distance = speed (distance can be replaced or & added to with other theories)
Speed + focus (aiming) = power
Power applied with penetration = force
Using the dummy in this fashion makes your training more effective. All you have to do in a real world situation is move 1 inch or so closer to an opponent and u have completed the formula with penetration.
 

Flying Crane

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We have a tendency to declare what is and what is not. A crocodile cares not for the limitations we claim they have.
Beautiful, and quite to the metaphor, actually.

Just when people say This or That cannot be done, well there is someone doing exactly This or That. And it's far more common than some people want to believe.
 
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Yeung

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The lack of proficiency in any art is vulnerable. The system of Wing Chun taught by Yip Man is very unique compare to the other schools of Wing Chun taught in Foshan, Guangzhou and Gulo Village with special focus in sticking hands to entertain the aggressor and sends him or her away. Proficiency is achieved in doing sticking hands with the teacher and fellow practitioners in attacking, defending, and encounters. This was the in house contest system from the beginning when Yip Man taught his art openly in Foshan as well as in Hong Kong. Maybe this sort of explained the lack of proficiency with Wing Chun practitioners who did not have the opportunity in such practical training. This thread has come up with a few interest topics such as Wing Chun encounters to the three rings trapping the moon (san huan tao yue 三环套月) in Gong Li Quan or long range techniques, Wing Chun linear and circular techniques, the use of Wing Chun dummy as a training tool.
 

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