Is "Olympic" boxing a martial art?

[Makalakumu]

This topic is being spun off of a TKD thread. A point was made that Olympic TKD was not a martial art and the question was asked well, if boxing is a martial art, then why not Olympic TKD?

So, is "Olympic" boxing a martial art? The reason I use "Olympic" is because I'm hoping to conflate the topics of boxing and taekwondo. The boxing style that I am talking about is the style that is commonly performed in the Olympics.

 

[tellner]

It is at least as much a martial art as Judo, TKD or the shooting sports. It is somewhat less a martial art than the Pentathlon which was explicitly designed as a military exercise.

 

[Twin Fist]

I dont consider boxing a martial art.

why?

same reason I dont think of BJJ as a martial art

same with judo

they are sports

boxing, like BJJ and judo is trained with a set of rules in mind

sport rules for competition

now, that being said, each CAN be used for self defense, but that self defense aspect is accidental, not intentional. Self defense is not the purpose of any of those "systems"

ergo, IMO, not martial arts.

just an opinion.

 

[arnisador]

It is at least as much a martial art as Judo, TKD

I concur--if you distinguish between martial arts and martial sports, is surely the latter.

 

[Makalakumu]

I would suspect that a great many people who think they are practicing a martial art, actually practice a martial sport. Personally, I see no distinction between the two. You can have a self defense based martial art and you can have a sport based martial art. It's a matter of preference I guess.

On the other hand, it's interesting to note just how much BJJ/MMA has found its way into military training. These sport based philosophies are beginning to dominate when it comes to training of newbies. It would seem that a lot of people in the military find a lot of value in sport based martial arts.

Thus, boxing, IMO, would be a martial art.

 

[Carol]

I think that even in the military there is a value on hand-to-hand techs that control instead of maim/kill.

 

[terryl965]

Olympic Boxing is a sport just like all the rest, but certain techs. could be used on the street if need be.

 

[searcher]

Olympic Boxing is a sport just like all the rest, but certain techs. could be used on the street if need be.

Exactly what I was thinking. Tellner hit is on the head along with Arnisador.

Shooting sports are just that, until you turn the firearm on a person.

 

[jarrod]

people can make distinctions between martial arts & sports if they want to. but the fact remains that an olympic level boxer is probably much more capable of defending himself than your average martial artist trained in "teh deadlies".

it's a martial art, & martial sports are just martial arts that allow for competition.

until a few years ago, the marine corps required boxing in basic training, but it was suspended after a recruit was killed. evidently someone in the military thought it had some martial value.

jf

 

[Nolerama]

:feedtroll

I dont consider boxing a martial art.

why?

same reason I dont think of BJJ as a martial art

same with judo

they are sports

boxing, like BJJ and judo is trained with a set of rules in mind

sport rules for competition

now, that being said, each CAN be used for self defense, but that self defense aspect is accidental, not intentional. Self defense is not the purpose of any of those "systems"

ergo, IMO, not martial arts.

just an opinion.

Ergo... lol.

 

[Nolerama]

To the OP, I think Olympic boxing is a martial art, as well as a sport. You put any of those boxers in a real-life SD situation against an attacker, their chances of surviving are much greater than the unskilled.

To the sport itself, I think the rules are kind of weird, as well as the disparity between contact levels of the athletes. Why reward one competitor for scoring a point, and not the other one for creating damage on a glancing blow? Watching the Olympic boxing this past summer made me cringe.

About TF's post: your post was insulting and (to me) somewhat egotistic.

 

[elder999]

Olympic boxing, amateur boxing and even professional boxing are martial sports like olympic judo, TKD, AAU karate, etc., etc.

"Boxing" can be, and is a martial art just as judo, TKD, and karate can be. It depends upon how they are trained and practiced.

Boxing has especially evolved away from its martial roots-the guard has changed, because there is less clinching and grappling permitted than there was in the bareknuckle era. The gloves have changed some of the method of striking. The rules have changed from what they once were to have more safety for the participants, and to enhance the contest for entertainment purposes.

 

[Makalakumu]

To the OP, I think Olympic boxing is a martial art, as well as a sport. You put any of those boxers in a real-life SD situation against an attacker, their chances of surviving are much greater than the unskilled.

To the sport itself, I think the rules are kind of weird, as well as the disparity between contact levels of the athletes. Why reward one competitor for scoring a point, and not the other one for creating damage on a glancing blow? Watching the Olympic boxing this past summer made me cringe.

About TF's post: your post was insulting and (to me) somewhat egotistic.

I agree on all points but the last. There exists an ardent group of people who truly believe that combat sports are not martial arts. That's fine. It's there opinion. However, I think that unless you can trace your lineage directly back to true self defense or martial orientated traditions, you probably are practicing some form of martial sport. Even then, I think there is so much cross over that it's difficult to separate them.

In my dojo, for example, we train all kinds of different sporting martial arts in order to build real self defense skills. It's all about adjusting the rules to fit the situation so that you pass on the principle and protect the student's safety to a certain degree.

Heck, we even box, sometimes and I consider that legitimate self defense training.

 

[bluekey88]

In the ring...it's a martial sport.

Outside the ring...it's a martial art.

Context is everything.

 

[lklawson]

same with judo

they are sports

It's interesting to me to observe the evolution of Judo through history. Bob Sprayley has done a heap of research on this. Should probably check it out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I concur--if you distinguish between martial arts and martial sports, is surely the latter.

The problem is that there is no well defined distinction between "Martial Art" and "Martial Sport." So much of it depends on the individual teacher and practitioner.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Boxing has especially evolved away from its martial roots-the guard has changed, because there is less clinching and grappling permitted than there was in the bareknuckle era. The gloves have changed some of the method of striking. The rules have changed from what they once were to have more safety for the participants, and to enhance the contest for entertainment purposes.

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Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Nolerama]

Some good points, but I think it boils down to the individual.

Are you a fighter?

I think one can train years in the MAs and never become a fighter. I think in terms of competition, there's a baseline aggressive nature that makes a fighter. An Olympic boxer has that aggressive quality in order to win a match. A competing judoka, BJJ, or MMA person has to have that sort of quality in order to compete as well.

Take that aggressive nature into a SD situation. Their situational awareness, under the stress of conflict, may be more honed/effective in comparison to one who may have trained in something marketed as SD-specific.

Can one have the tools to defend himself, but not the practical application? I believe so. I see it all the time. "I studied this art for X years," only to see them not incorporate those tools in a sparring situation. I've seen the same type, who have worked for me as bouncers (studing Art X) for a number of years, completely fail when it came to de-escalating a situation, or matching aggression with an unruly customer.

Bottom line (from my perspective): it depends on the practitioner's athleticism, level of aggression, and ability to operate their skillset under distress. It doesn't matter what "art." But I believe that Olympic boxers, sport BJJ, and Judo competitors have an edge because it's proven they can operate under that stress, can maintain an aggression level to suit the situation, and have a level of athleticism that allows them to compete.

Are they fighters? Definitely. Are they martial artists? Definitely.

 

[Makalakumu]

One of the things I've always like about the sporting arts like boxing is that it helps you develop that fighter attitude. When you work hard and apply your skills and win, you can't help but build confidence.

 

[Langenschwert]

I agree that the distinction between martial art and martial sport can be a little iffy. Even in my own area of expertise, the art of the sword was practiced for sport and "real life". One used sporting bouts to improve their ability to defend themselves so they could "do in play what is good in earnest."

So even from the middle ages, it was realized that sporting bouts made one a better martial artist. We have this controversy in HES today, particularly with the fechtbuch produced by Joachim Meyer in the Renaissance. There are certain areas of the fechtbuch which seem to focus on a more "sporting" version of Liechtenauer's longsword, but the dagger stuff is pretty darn serious. This is from a time when the longsword was no longer a military weapon, and people were turning to the rapier for self-defence, which he also details.

So was Meyer a martial artist or a sportsman? Well, no doubt he was a badass fighter, and a great educator.

We can also turn to the fechtbuch of Johannes Leckuchner. he details combat with the messer (a type of falchion). It's about as martial and merciless as you can get. However, he includes a section of "show techniques" that you can use to impress an audience, some of which are quite comical, showing stuffing the "victim" into a sack, or being pinned so that the victor can play backgammon. So obviously for Leckuchner, the martial artist could also be an entertainer.

So bringing this back to the topic at hand, the distinction between martial sport and martial art is kind of bogus. You can train a primarily sporting art as a martial one, and can practice a lethal one for sport. That doesn't mean that a sport CAN'T be a martial art and vice versa. We've just seen historical precedent.

Besides, if you're not actually out there using your art to kill or maim people, are you really a martial artist at all? If we're not actually using these arts to kill, aren't we all just sportsmen?

Just some food for thought.

Best regards,

-Mark