Is MMA A Martial Art?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Indie12, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,708
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Pretty much. Whatever label you want to use, MMA is in the same category as TKD, Muay Thai, San Shou, Fencing, Boxing, Judo or Savate. If you consider any of these a martial art, then MMA is a martial art. If you call them combat sports, then MMA is a combat sport. There is nothing to distinguish any of these from any of the others.
     
  2. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gander
    There was actually an argument on Sherdog for a bit about whether it should be called "Mixed martial arts" or "Mixed combat sports". interesting debate.

    I also find the idea that BJJ isn't a TMA interesting, since by all accounts it's older than TaeKwonDo, at least in its modern form. Helio was fighting Kimura ten+ years before anyone used the term TaeKwonDo
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,708
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    True, and it's as old or older than most of the modern iterations of Karate, too. We're really just having a giant discussion about semantics. What does "combat sport" mean to you? How do you define "martial arts?" It's a little different, and no one's really wrong.

    The only time I really disagree is when one person's standards are fluid. Where TKD and Judo are "martial arts" but BJJ isn't. Or where Judo, BJJ and Sambo are but CACC or other folk styles of wrestling are not. Or where Boxing is but MMA is not. Truthfully, it doesn't matter what labels you prefer to use. If they're useful and constructive for you, great, as long as you're consistent. If you're not, it makes it very difficult to communicate, particularly in writing.
     
  4. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,873
    Likes Received:
    6,360
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    Where you train - now, that's the way it's supposed to be!

    I've found some MMA gyms that don't teach anything other than fighting. I find that a shame.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,708
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    What gyms are those? And how do you know what they teach? Just curious.


    Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.
     
  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,873
    Likes Received:
    4,387
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    I have to ask as well, why is that a shame? What is martial arts if not fighting? You can wrap it up in fancy words, use nice posters with self righteous mottos on but martial arts is still fighting, if it's not, it's not martial arts is it? What are punches and kicks for if not to hurt someone? if you are doing kicks and punches for 'self enlightenment' or 'inner peace' I'd suggest you are foing something wrong.
    Go into an MMA gym/club and you will find discipline, respect and good sportsmanship as well as fitness taken seriously. You wil find self confidence and self esteem being built, attention to rules and details is also learnt. Just because they don't bow (they will shake hands or hug instead) and pretend what they are doing is something akin to a religion doesn't mean they are lesser human beings than those who take a traditional view of things or perhaps the MMAers are the traditional martial artists and those who think they aren't are living out some pseudo Eastern way of martial arts that Westerners have dreamed up as being what was done in Japan etc.
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,708
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    This. great post.


    Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.
     
  8. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Australia
    Im inclined to concur up to a point, for now.
    I did say from the start that definitively, MMA is Martial Arts.
    I was mainly questioning whether it itself was a Martial Art.

    For now, I cant say I wholly accept it, but I am inclined to let it slip into that category for now, unless I think of a reason not to.
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,873
    Likes Received:
    4,387
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    MMA is what it says it is...mixed...martial...arts.
     
  10. thegatekeeper

    thegatekeeper Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    MMA just means Mixed Martial Arts lol
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,873
    Likes Received:
    4,387
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    I wouldn't post on the TKD forum 'Is TKD a martial art' or on the Judo 'Is Judo a martial art' nor would I post up that none of these would 'work in a real fight' so why does MMA get all the flak? We get stuff about it not being any good for 'the street', that it's not a martial art, it's proponants aren't 'real' martial artists because they don't train in a dojo so why all the grief for MMA? If you don't like it...don't train it, don't watch the competitions and please don't think you are an expert on it just because of what you see on one companies promotion just because it's on the television.
     
  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    440
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Germany
    In my view, a movement is a movement. It doesn't have to belong to a specific set of other movements with a special name to make it valid. If I poke someone in the eye, and it hurts, then it's valid. Is that TKD? MMA? Kung Fu? Is it even martial arts? If I spit in someone's face to distract them, is that a martial arts technique? What about an armbar? I don't really care, as long as it works for the purpose!
     
  13. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gander
    They teach the sport of mixed martial arts which is what they're supposed to teach. What else would you like them to teach?
     
  14. Indie12

    Indie12 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Possible difference between UK and USA mentality? :)
    At least in my area, that seems to be the mentality of all of the MMAers!

    And yes, I do find most of the people I encounter who are MMAests points of view 'entertaining'. By that meant the attitude approach of "if I watch this, do this, then I know this" referring to techniques of MMA. Or my favorite, "I read it in a magazine or book, therefore I know it."

    I was referring to something else that happened in another forum, by that, I meant I was referring to "I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or actually stating an opinion." Didnt' mean to confuse! And you actually cleared that up in the response you posted! Hope that cleared it up! ;)

    Glad your gratified by my amusment of that mentality!! :)
     
  15. Indie12

    Indie12 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I agree to a point! However, just for the record: I have seen those very questions posted on various TKD, Judo, Karate, and Jiu-jitsu on other Martial Art discussion forums.
    Usually you actually get some pretty interested comments and opinions.
     
  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,873
    Likes Received:
    4,387
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England

    Yes but I bet they are posted by the people who practice those styles rather than what happens in MMA when non practicioners post up about MMA.

    I wouldn't knock btw the ability of MMA people to watch a move being done and then know how to do it. MMA people do tend to have a solid background in martial arts and you will find Judo people for example able to work out BJJ moves simply by watching and vice versa. TKD people can watch karate and know how it's done, Often something is similiar enough to a technique they already know for them to be able to do it. I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate them. I doubt very much it's a cultural difference more one of not understanding MMA. A BJJer can watch wrestling and understand what is being done then do it, I'm sure a wrestler can watch BJJ and do the same. And yes you can see a movem in a magazine, a specialist MMA magazine which lays out how to do a move. I think you will find that MMA people have more skills than being able to grunt which is how you seem to think they are. And yes my 'amusement' was sarcastic.
     
  17. Indie12

    Indie12 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18

    Well I've seen most of these forums and posts, which is why I can disagree! The conversation always seems to pit system against system, and then always refers to some example of MMA. Although, often it makes for an interesting discussion on what exactly constitutes a "Martial Art" no matter which system is being discussed.

    For the record: I have done MMA, in fact I did it for two years. So, my views on it is because of my experience training in it and with other MMAers. True, many MMAers do have a solid background in some other Martial Art, again it varies onto what 'type' of MMA your doing, are you doing it for UFC or Cage Fighting? (Which is what a majority of people in the USA- at least, tend to do it for) Or are you doing it through application of combat or self defense? MMAers for a majority do it for Sport, which is the issue I have. But then again, I personally am not fond of Sport Martial Arts! (again my personal opinion).

    Now I'm not saying a move cannot be learned simply by observing, in fact many stuff can be learned by simple observation or reading! I didn't really meant it as a cultural difference, I meant it as a geographic difference, meaning perhaps it's just different approches on learning MMA, either by attempting to "watch" it via TV, or as you mention "more to learn, more to discover." At least from my geographic area, that seems to be the 'approach' which is "I see TV UFC, I learn TV UFC, I know everything about UFC via TV"!!

    I guess the question should've been "What constitutes a Martial Art"? In other words, what makes a Martial Art, 'A Martial Art"?

    LOL. Yes, I figured you were being sarcastic, but it took a little while to figure that out! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  18. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    20,311
    Likes Received:
    540
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    NH
    Why the issue with MMA folks doing what they do for sport? MMA is a ruleset, as Blindside emphasized.
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,873
    Likes Received:
    4,387
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    MMA is for fighting in competitions, that's it's purpose. It's not been put together for any other reason. It's not for self defence, or looking pretty, it's, as has been said, a ruleset for competitions. If the majority are training for sport then the majority are correct, the minority aren't, they may be having fun or whatever but it's not MMA.
    I've been training, reffing, cornering coaching MMA for 12 years now and no one I speak to has any doubt what MMA is for...competition. TMA people do MMA for sport, MMA people do it for sport because...wait for it...MMA is for sport.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,708
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Once again, this sounds very suspicious, and not based on actual, firsthand knowledge. It sounds like you're projecting your impressions of mma fans to the martial artists who train. I'd recommend taking your own advice. Watch less. Do more. Go find a good gym and train. Everything tez has said about mma also applies in the USA. I think it would be eye opening.



    Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.123
     

Share This Page