Is kiai necessary?

oftheherd1

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One interesting note on #2. While it does do that, and that helps a bit if you are struck in the abdomen, a Ryukyu Kempo instructor showed me how much more effective it is to push you belly out to meet the punch. Startling difference.

If you say it is more effective, I believe it. I just can't figure out how that would work. Any anyway, I am pretty comfortable with kiai-ing during an attack to the abdomen, or while break falling.

I would appreciate a little more explanation though.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Absolutely so, for those arts that teach kiai when doing break falls. When I studied TKD, we didn't learn break falls.
That was why I added that. I think it may be essential to have in some form for taking a lot of falls, perhaps less so in arts that don't. Though I do like the approach someone mentioned of starting with a kiai, then learning not to use it all the time. I had to learn not to kiai when I was teaching in a YMCA, right next to a meeting room.
 

Gerry Seymour

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If you say it is more effective, I believe it. I just can't figure out how that would work. Any anyway, I am pretty comfortable with kiai-ing during an attack to the abdomen, or while break falling.

I would appreciate a little more explanation though.
The demonstration was pretty simple, and pretty convincing. Have someone punch you in the gut - not too hard, but hard enough that you feel it. The first time, tighten up (a kiai will do this for you, of course). Now repeat it, but push your belly out, like you're pretending to be pregnant. You push it out with force at the moment of the impact, the same timing you'd use with the kiai.

It's not something I've practiced regularly, because the kiai fits better into my overall movement. But it did seem more effective, and I keep watching for a way to integrate it into the principles I work with.
 

jks9199

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Yes, it's necessary. No, it's not.

Huh?

Lots of detailed responses above, I'm going to hit a different angle. Yes, the focus and drive that a kiai/kihap/shout is created by is necessary -- but the actual shout is not. I've been taught "sound fighting"; we use a variety of sounds to help synchronize the body and timing, as well as the intent. Teaching a student to make a loud shout at a particular point in a technique is giving them a mnemonic cue for where the focus of the technique is. At first, they must do so out loud, often very audibly. Over time, these sounds or shouts can be internalized and "fade out of sight" but they're still present in the motion... and then, sometimes we have to pull them back out to awareness to fix something that's gone off. (Or at least it sure seems that way to me... one of the first things I do when something goes off is look at whether I made the right sound... and start making it.)

Then there are shouts that are really unnecessary -- but add good dramatics to a form or demonstration. While they may be unneeded in the actual technique -- they're part of the performance. A good actor doesn't need a set, props, or makeup to sell a part -- but it sure helps, no?
 

Earl Weiss

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One interesting note on #2. While it does do that, and that helps a bit if you are struck in the abdomen, a Ryukyu Kempo instructor showed me how much more effective it is to push you belly out to meet the punch. Startling difference.

There are different factors at work. #2 is a prophylactic action (Just in case) as opposed to a conscious action taken in response to an attack.
 

donald1

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For self defense purposes no. Its not going to block that punch aimed at your face or make all the bullies afraid and run run for the hills.

However i you expect to train in a school that does kiai. Do it loud and proud. in addition to the breathing already mentioned by previous posters it also shows your Instructor that you are capable of following basic instructions.
 

Gerry Seymour

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There are different factors at work. #2 is a prophylactic action (Just in case) as opposed to a conscious action taken in response to an attack.
Agreed. And it's still my preference, though the other method I described appears to be more effective, because it doesn't require I different reaction. I kiai (even silently) often, so it's an easy part of my defense.
 

Oldbear343

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Since I'm a judoka I may be using the wrong word (say sorry) but in taekwondo is kiai (shouting) necessary or optional? I was considering joining my college's club but am a little weary since I'm the shy/quiet type.
Kihap/kiai serves several purposes (or so I was taught): it focuses you, it hardens your abdomen, and it can distract/scare an opponent. It does feel strange at first for quieter people, but it can be addictive - I have been known to throw an extra kiai/Kihap in to a kata/pattern when fired up! If you want to train at that school, don't let this be an issue. ...
 

Rough Rider

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One of my pet peeves is to hear someone shout "Kihap" which is the equivelant of shouting "Yell".

I'm with you on that. Mine usually comes out as "Ha!" or "Hey!" or sometimes something else because I really don't think about it. There are a lot of people at my dojang, though, that always shout the actual word "Kihap!"
 

JowGaWolf

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One interesting note on #2. While it does do that, and that helps a bit if you are struck in the abdomen, a Ryukyu Kempo instructor showed me how much more effective it is to push you belly out to meet the punch. Startling difference.
It causes the punch to land incorrectly by making punch land sooner than your opponent is preparing for. I use a similar method to jam front kicks. It's one of the techniques I use to explain kicks, where I let someone kick me in my stomach with a heel kick. At first students are amazed because I can throw people backwards when they kick me simply using my stomach.

I haven't tried the same thing on punches because I'm worried that someone will injure their wrist if I get it right. I do similar to what you explained with the exception that I move forward directly into the strike.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Sometime in tournament that you spar (or wrestle) against your opponent, you have found an opportunity that may not be perfect, but that is the best you can find. You tell yourself, "I'll attack right at this moment. If I'll win, I want to win right now. If I'll lose, I want to lose right at this moment. I'm not going to wait any longer." You make a big noise, commit yourself, attack, and see whether you are a winner, or a loser
 

JowGaWolf

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Sometime in tournament that you spar (or wrestle) against your opponent, you have found an opportunity that may not be perfect, but that is the best you can find. You tell yourself, "I'll attack right at this moment. If I'll win, I want to win right now. If I'll lose, I want to lose right at this moment. I'm not going to wait any longer." You make a big noise, commit yourself, attack, and see whether you are a winner, or a loser
Battle Cry
 

Gerry Seymour

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I'm with you on that. Mine usually comes out as "Ha!" or "Hey!" or sometimes something else because I really don't think about it. There are a lot of people at my dojang, though, that always shout the actual word "Kihap!"
Yeah. For a while I experimented with different sounds to see what was less harsh in the throat, etc. None of them sounded a bit like either "kiai" or "kihap", both of which I've heard entire schools yelling during demonstrations.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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When I started in tkd, I would yell "kiap" because I was told to kiap. My instructor then told me that it would be like yelling "yell" in English.

I'm not trying to be funny, but when schools tell you to always kiap, it can be confusing. If I triple punch in a horse-riding stance, is that "ha-ha-ha", one long "haaaaaaaa", or just a short "ha" at the last punch? I like the exhale sounds in ITF/boxing better in cases like this.
 

Gerry Seymour

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When I started in tkd, I would yell "kiap" because I was told to kiap. My instructor then told me that it would be like yelling "yell" in English.

I'm not trying to be funny, but when schools tell you to always kiap, it can be confusing. If I triple punch in a horse-riding stance, is that "ha-ha-ha", one long "haaaaaaaa", or just a short "ha" at the last punch? I like the exhale sounds in ITF/boxing better in cases like this.
I actually teach my students how to kiai, rather than just telling them to. So, they kiai on every fall. They exhale (no kiai, it needs to be smoother) on every roll. They kiai on every single punch. For combinations, they kiai on the power punch. And so forth. I also teach them what sound to use ("ha" to start with, and may change it if they need a different focus).
 

Tez3

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That''s very true - I used to hold my breath sparring too!

That's surprising common, I think we've all done it. I saw a girl fall off her pony once because she was holding her breath doing a show jumping round!
 

Gerry Seymour

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That's surprising common, I think we've all done it. I saw a girl fall off her pony once because she was holding her breath doing a show jumping round!
I've even seen a soloist (singing group) pass out holding her breath waiting for her part.
 

RTKDCMB

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Well where else but a martial arts class can you shout at the top of your lungs and not only not get into trouble for it but be encouraged to do it louder?
 

Metal

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Yeah. For a while I experimented with different sounds to see what was less harsh in the throat, etc..

The sound for the 'traditional' kihap, the one used to focus energy, comes from the abdomen and therefore, in my case, doesn't affect the throat much. The kyeorugi kihap or long yells before breaks in demonstrations often are higher throat-based yells though. I tend to hear higher kihaps in Poomsae competition a lot, too.

Anyway, in my case I use different kihaps in breaking, forms and kyorugi. Did you also end up having different kihaps for different occasions?


Well where else but a martial arts class can you shout at the top of your lungs and not only not get into trouble for it but be encouraged to do it louder?

That's exactly what I tell kids when they're too shy to do proper kihaps. ;-)
 

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