Is it possible... 18-year-old person to have achieved 4th degree black belt?

[Gentle Fist]

This is the point that so many people seem to forget. A black belt doesn't mean a cotton picking thing outside the organization that awarded it. What it means inside that organization can vary widely. So much so that unless a person is also a member of said organization, they can't tell what it means either. Some people have some familiarity with other organizations to be able to get a rough idea of what a black belt means, but many want to immediately assume what they think it means based upon their own organization.

I've also noticed that many are incredibly eager to point out how difficult it is to get rank in their organization "to get 2nd dan, you have to hand-walk over hot coals ... backwards!" as if that would make their rank more meaningful and impressive to those of us outside of their organization. Folks, it just doesn't matter! I am familiar with perfectly legitimate organizations that expect each ranking up to 5th dan to take 12 to 18 months. I'm also familiar with another perfectly legitimate organization where the first couple of dan ranks are fairly simple, and they get progressively more difficult, and so take longer to achieve. I have also been a member in another legitimate organization where your first dan, and each subsequent dan grade, were expected to take between 5 and 7 years. None of those ranks mean anything within the organization that I am a part of now.

Anyone can call themselves a tenth dan soke-dokey. They can come up with all the back-up they want, but I'm still not going to treat them any differently than anyone else unless they are the head of the organization I am a part of. I'm much more impressed by how people handle themselves, both on-line and in person, than by whatever ranks they may hold.

Well said!

 

[monk64]

some founders rush people along so that they can fill the upper ranks of their system so that they can guarantee it's lifespan for after they pass along.

That is a most charitable interpretation

Other reasons are testing fees, ego massage to keep students engaged, making the organization seem big, the ability to take on more students with assistant instructors, etc.

 

[Tez3]

"I have a 4th Degree Black Belt in Miyagi Karate!"

To be fair he's stood like that because his leg is knackered lol!

 

[Yondanchris]

I hear ya, I just witnessed an 18 or 19 year old get kicked to 3rd. I started before he was even born!

Started MA in March of 1993. Got my 3rd in September 2010. Coming up on 20 years in the arts. So I find it amusing when people show up with lots of rank!

 

[StreetReady]

if you can dream it, you can achieve it. i think it's possible.

 

[Black/Red Block]

I would have to say no, NOT in my Dojo, they would have to test for there ADULT FULL black belt at 16 so would be looking at Adult 2nd Dan at 18. How can a Child understand the complexity of the art they are practicing, the forms and Kata the aplication of the kata. In my School we work on Bunkai/Application and the 2nd Adult Kata/5th Junior Kata has 3 neck wrenches in it, how do I teach that to a child who is not mature enough to understand when to use lethal force and when not to use lethal force!

If you got the tippy tippy bouncy bouncy 1 stirke and scream at the top of your voice then regroup to begin again stuff then I agree there is no difference in ability as its Non-contact anyway but ask yourself how many MMA clubs have REPLACED non-contact karate classes in the last 10 years Because of this ethos and ethics of Karate.

I have not and will not issue a Full Blackbelt to anyone under the age of 16, regardless of ability, period, my dojo = my rules. This includes my son who is only 22 months old and will be able to do everything I do and more by the time he's 10.

I hate what Karate has become its a "Johnny's mum wants Johnny to have a Blackbelt but she doesn't want him the get any bruises or break a nail doing it" syndrome. What's next Non-Contact American Football where the player faint their tackles to preven injury!!

My school being knockdown has a heavy influx on sparring and how can I put a 12 year old up against an adult for Full contact sparring to earn his "Adult Black Belt"

I watched a local school to me and the Sensei was an awesome teacher, truly encompassed the ethos of Shotokan. Now there was a Teenage Black Belt with a patch on saying Cadet leader or similar, now she was more interested in chatting with her mates than assisting the Sensei by making sure the class was doing their drills correctly. This is why I don't give a FULL Black belt to Children

4th Dan at 18 says:>

**************** MCDOJO WARNING ***********************

http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2007/01/09/how-to-tell-a-mcdojo/

http://www.amam-magazine.com/mcdojo.html

Sorry but I this is my view on gradings, and I can't change it, OSU

 

[Black/Red Block]

Not in Judo, JuJutsu, or BJJ...

One of the classes I attended was a Jujitsu school and it had 10 year old blackbelts - I think it was a Kenpo Jujitsu school though, so was it really Jujitsu. so its not just Karate!

 

[Gentle Fist]

One of the classes I attended was a Jujitsu school and it had 10 year old blackbelts - I think it was a Kenpo Jujitsu school though, so was it really Jujitsu. so its not just Karate!

Kenpo Jujutsu = Karate with fancy name...

In all reality true jujutsu doesn't follow the kyu/dan system unless it has been americanized

 

[Gentle Fist]

if you can dream it, you can achieve it. i think it's possible.

then I should have been a red belt years ago

 

[monk64]

I came across a school in New York where the instructor's kids were both listed as instructors with 4th degree black belts in "Karate" - I put that in quotes because no amount of my digging through the site could determine which style of Karate it was.

One of the kids is listed as a 2011 high school graduate and is a 4th degree black belt. It also says he "has been training in the martial arts since the age of two."

I've had several children and have a two-year-old right now, and have known many two-year-olds. There is nothing a two-year-old can do to train in the martial arts, unless you are stretching the definition to include things like potty training so they can someday wear a gi without needing diapers.

I won't shame them by linking here but it's apparently a big school, or so they claim on their site.

 

[WaterGal]

Depends on the style and organization, I suppose, and how long they want you to wait between belts. In TKD, if you're really really dedicated, you can get a 4th degree in 8 years. That's the minimum. I don't think most people, especially kids, are going to do it that fast, but if you start at 6 you could definitely get a 4th at 18, yeah.

And Kukkiwon allows it, but it's a "poom" grading rather than a "dan" - a junior black belt, if you will. I think you can get that at 16. That's as high as poom goes, though... after that you have to wait until you're, IIRC, 25 to test for your 5th degree.

 

[arnisador]

I've been to TKD tournaments with divisions for 8-10 y.o. 3rd degree black belts.

 

[Cirdan]

I've been to TKD tournaments with divisions for 8-10 y.o. 3rd degree black belts.

Did they need help to tie their gold-striped belts?

 

[arnisador]

Their mommies were there.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Velcro belts...

http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Karate-QUICK-TIE-Velcro-WHITE/dp/B008J1IMZW

 

[WaterGal]

I've been to TKD tournaments with divisions for 8-10 y.o. 3rd degree black belts.

Were there any kids actually competing in that division? I remember a tournament I was at where they had a division for 4-6-year old black belts, and everybody laughed when they called it out, because of course there weren't any!

I don't think there's any way a kid could get a first degree by age 6, even if they started at 3, unless it's just a "black belt factory" kind of place. At that age it takes them like 4-6 months to learn one form. And they'd have to have it at 5 to be an 8-year old with a 3rd degree. Just no way.

 

[SPX]

Sadly today, anythings possible, but IMO, I find that anyone that young who has that rank, is laughable at best. I also find it laughable that this person kid thinks he's indestructable. Sorry, I dont care what rank you hold, it doesnt mean ya got an "S" on your chest.

Now, I'm sure some will say, "Well, if this kid started at 4....." Again, I still call BS on that. Why? Well, we have proof in the pudding right here, given this kids atttiude and the way he acts. No understanding of the BB, what it means, etc.

I'll have to disagree with a few things here.

For one, the kid might be really good. Maybe he really DID start training at 4. That doesn't mean that he should be a 4th degree already, but you can't blame him for that. If you're going to blame someone, blame his instructor.

Second, the TS said that he said what he said during "horseplay" and struck a comical stance, so it sounds like he was kidding around rather than seriously threatening somebody.

And lastly, you may have your philosophical interpretation for what a black belt is supposed to mean, but that doesn't mean everyone will share that view. A lot of people train martial arts solely as fighting systems rather than paths to spiritual or moral enlightenment.

 

[MikeBielat]

Unfortunately, in today's society this could be very well be a possibility. As others mentioned, styles vary in the way they do belt promotions and whatnot.

Instructors looking to make a living off teaching are sometimes forced to think with their wallets. They have bills to pay and need to ensure that people keep coming through their doors. If this person is talking the way that you mentioned then I do not hold that dojo in high regards at all. Being a black belt is a way of life. It is also a total understanding of your art and how to conduct yourself. The more you train then the more this should shine through in their personality.

I wish it was the same as it was in the old days where everyone was just given a white belt and your blood, dirt and sweat naturally colored the belt through all your training.

 

[PoolMan]

Last year a girl in India became the youngest blackbelt ever at I think 5 years and 4 months old (don't remember exactly). By getting a BB that young I think she can manage a 4th degree by 18. Does that mean her BB is worth a damn? I don't think so. But that's the reality of the world we live in now.

 

[Happy-Papi]

Wow, I'm very sad reading this thread. This proves that I belong in the McDojo clan of super kamehameha fighters because I too got my rank when I was in my teens. After all these years... now I feel so dirty, lame and a fake, lol! Our little McDojo group was so small that probably they needed to promote me fast or else the group might get even smaller, hahaha. Our little McDojo was not registered, not popular and probably cannot even be considered as a real martial arts by itself even with the fact that my seniors/teachers are high ranking martial artist who came from different arts cause they are all junk

Good thing is that I never spent a coin for my training. Transportation, food, tools and equipments were all free and best part is that I received some pocket money for it Sad thing is that I was the youngest and most of them were about my father's age and I had to bear listening to their corny jokes. But to enter our little McDojo group was a bit tight. Members can only join when invited. Must have experience with several martial arts and skilled with bladed weapons. Must be an excellent swimmer, huge experience in survival techniques especially in the mountains, must enjoy heights like a monkey, must be excellent with firearms, must have some experiences on real fights that could probably have killed the guy but survived and other crazy stuffs... Sad I didn't have even one of these qualities... or maybe that it was because of my good looks, HAHAHA!

On my way to McDonalds now for cheeseburger and some fries