Indian War Club

[Grenadier]

Ah, the Indian War Club...

A more primitive version of the mace used in Europe, for certain, but one would be foolish to underestimate its strength.

I've seen a good number of these that use very, very dense woods on the spherical part. I've even known of one war club fancier (not an insult; he actually takes that term with a beaming smile of pride) who made his own club head with a ball of Lignum Vitae (the most dense wood in the world; sinks in water easily, and very, very, very, hard). That, plus the wood is essentially so packed with its own oil, that it never needs oiling (some people actually use this to make ball bearings).

Think of it this way... Many of those heavy balls they use in the game of Cricket are made of Lignum Vitae. Imagine getting conked on the head by one of these. Now imagine getting conked on the head by one of these attached to a stick that increases the force applied.

I can tell you, I'd rather get hit by a baseball bat, than by one of these war clubs with a Lignum Vitae head.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I have to ask.

What sort of scenario do people envision themselves in using some of these weapons? I like weapons as much as the next guy and I have some of those Cold Steel catelogues with the "war clubs" the tomahawks, spears, throwing "torpedoes", swords, etc. etc. but I have to wonder, is this marketing of "defense tools" realistic? Is anybody going to the supermarket with a Zulu spear? Do you go hiking through the park with an "Indian war club" slung at your hip? Maybe you do, I dont know, but it seems to me this is about selling product than anything else. And those buying them are either doing it as collectors, hobbists, or fantasisers (sp?).

So, if you have purchased some of this stuff for "self protection" how do you employ them? Are they by the front door for home defense, in your car, are you a serviceman who has taken them to the battlefield, do you carry one to the corner store when you buy your beer?

Just to clarify, Im not saying that these tools are "evil "or should be outlawed or that you are somehow "flawed" if you buy them. Im just addressing the "wouldnt this be a great self defense weapon?" issue. Besides my firearms and some training sticks and blades, all I have is a couple of sheathed blades that typically see action (these days) as hunting/camping tools and a couple of pocket folders for daily carry. I have a display Katana that is currently wrapped up in a corner somewhere just cause I wanted it. But while I may like or want that cold steel "War Axe", Im not a collector and have no place to display it and I just dont see where I would ever need or use it.

 

[elder999]

I have to ask.

What sort of scenario do people envision themselves in using some of these weapons? I like weapons as much as the next guy and I have some of those Cold Steel catelogues with the "war clubs" the tomahawks, spears, throwing "torpedoes", swords, etc. etc. but I have to wonder, is this marketing of "defense tools" realistic? Is anybody going to the supermarket with a Zulu spear? Do you go hiking through the park with an "Indian war club" slung at your hip? Maybe you do, I dont know, but it seems to me this is about selling product than anything else. And those buying them are either doing it as collectors, hobbists, or fantasisers (sp?).

So, if you have purchased some of this stuff for "self protection" how do you employ them? Are they by the front door for home defense, in your car, are you a serviceman who has taken them to the battlefield, do you carry one to the corner store when you buy your beer?

Just to clarify, Im not saying that these tools are "evil "or should be outlawed or that you are somehow "flawed" if you buy them. Im just addressing the "wouldnt this be a great self defense weapon?" issue. Besides my firearms and some training sticks and blades, all I have is a couple of sheathed blades that typically see action (these days) as hunting/camping tools and a couple of pocket folders for daily carry. I have a display Katana that is currently wrapped up in a corner somewhere just cause I wanted it. But while I may like or want that cold steel "War Axe", Im not a collector and have no place to display it and I just dont see where I would ever need or use it.

Well, I have a few Cold Steel products-they are, with the exception of a cane, mostly for fun-fun to throw, fun to flail, fun to whatever...I have several authentic war clubs, and, while I "practice" with them from time to time, I'd never carry one about, except in a display case to Indian Market, or to drop off to someone who had bought one...something I haven't done in quite a few years...I always have a knife on me, or a Mont Blanc pen, and if I really have reason to be armed, I carry a Glock...this particular Cold Steel product, however, is just not very good: wrong weight, too smooth, wrong curve, and it comes with a metal horn to fit over that knob-just asking for charges with that....and it's as ugly as a mud fence...

 

[tellner]

Before the coming of the Europeans, Plains warfare was more about "counting coup" than splitting skulls, though it did happen. It also had pretty much progressed to a mounted affair,

Err, no. The horse may have evolved in the Americas, but it was long extinct. It was re-introduced by Europeans.

Anyway, if you look at the end of this post , you'll see a much more authentic, though made in this century, ball-club of the Woodland Indians, and if you read it, you'll see why that thing is nothing like one. You can also see an authentic Iroquois war club here .

And here's an authentic Plains Indian ball club, so you can see that it's not exactly like one of those:

Very nice pics, especially the one from the American history site.

Here is a picture of a pair of rungus in the style that an older Maasai man might carry, a couple of more workmanlike everyday rungus and a couple examples that wouldn't be out of place as walking sticks. In fact, there's a number of people making walking sticks that just happen to look a lot like them. The skull-breaker, when present, is small.

 

[elder999]

Err, no. The horse may have evolved in the Americas, but it was long extinct. It was re-introduced by Europeans.
.

Yeah, perhaps I should have said "before the westward expansion of the Americans."

 

[tellner]

Ah, the Indian War Club...

A more primitive version of the mace used in Europe, for certain, but one would be foolish to underestimate its strength.

Primitive? I don't know about that. Made of wood instead of metal, certainly. But "primitive" has some serious negative associations. And the design is damned near perfect for its intended purpose. As far as it goes, the mace isn't particularly European. They are found everywhere in every time from beautiful round-headed alabaster ones in ancient Egypt to specialized tulwar-hilted horseman's maces in India.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have to ask.

What sort of scenario do people envision themselves in using some of these weapons? I like weapons as much as the next guy and I have some of those Cold Steel catelogues with the "war clubs" the tomahawks, spears, throwing "torpedoes", swords, etc. etc. but I have to wonder, is this marketing of "defense tools" realistic? Is anybody going to the supermarket with a Zulu spear? Do you go hiking through the park with an "Indian war club" slung at your hip? Maybe you do, I dont know, but it seems to me this is about selling product than anything else. And those buying them are either doing it as collectors, hobbists, or fantasisers (sp?).

So, if you have purchased some of this stuff for "self protection" how do you employ them? Are they by the front door for home defense, in your car, are you a serviceman who has taken them to the battlefield, do you carry one to the corner store when you buy your beer?

Just to clarify, Im not saying that these tools are "evil "or should be outlawed or that you are somehow "flawed" if you buy them. Im just addressing the "wouldnt this be a great self defense weapon?" issue. Besides my firearms and some training sticks and blades, all I have is a couple of sheathed blades that typically see action (these days) as hunting/camping tools and a couple of pocket folders for daily carry. I have a display Katana that is currently wrapped up in a corner somewhere just cause I wanted it. But while I may like or want that cold steel "War Axe", Im not a collector and have no place to display it and I just dont see where I would ever need or use it.

This stuff is definately interesting and could be useful in the right circumstances. However, I will be working with 21st century implements myself for self defense and personal protection purposes, ie: firearms, knifes, blunt objects, etc......

Still it is interesting...

 

[Kreth]

So, if you have purchased some of this stuff for "self protection" how do you employ them? Are they by the front door for home defense, in your car, are you a serviceman who has taken them to the battlefield, do you carry one to the corner store when you buy your beer?

I have some similar stuff in my collection that I occasionally train with: assegai, sjambok, war hammer, cane, kusari fundo; various swords, sticks, and knives. Mainly for display/coversation pieces, but tactics are applicable to similar objects. A thrust with an assegai can be applied with a pool cue, for example.
And God help the poor bastard that ever breaks into my apartment. "I was terrified, officer, so I just grabbed this spiked war hammer from the wall to try and fend the scary, big man off..."

 

[tellner]

I have to ask.

What sort of scenario do people envision themselves in using some of these weapons? I like weapons as much as the next guy and I have some of those Cold Steel catelogues with the "war clubs" the tomahawks, spears, throwing "torpedoes", swords, etc. etc. but I have to wonder, is this marketing of "defense tools" realistic? Is anybody going to the supermarket with a Zulu spear? Do you go hiking through the park with an "Indian war club" slung at your hip? Maybe you do, I dont know, but it seems to me this is about selling product than anything else. And those buying them are either doing it as collectors, hobbists, or fantasisers (sp?).

Of course it's about selling stuff. Most of the self defense market is about fantasies and dreams. Why else do the make black-coated knives with names like the CQB MilSpecOps DuMoFo Mark XXX Eviscerator with special Sentry Removal geometry? For that matter, unless you're a diamond courier or live in Beirut and commute to Baghdad who needs forty six rounds of JHP, two knives and a club for personal protection?

It's all about image. The world is dangerous. You take your Big Potent Object of Power and fight the Bad Man. You are safe. You get status and breeding rights. It's a lot like the SCA or the BDSM scene. Except that if you spent the money on funny clothes for either of those two you'd be more likely to actually find a girl to sleep with

Some of us are up front about our fetishes. I just plain like weapons as a collector and a martial artist. I've already got a wife, and I'm well equipped for any sort of self defense situation I'm likely to encounter. Past that it's just a hobby. Some people have more money to spend on their hobby and buy WWII era smachets and the kind of katana that needs to be sent to Japan for polishing. Others make do with Museum Replicas and Cold Steel, although some of that stuff is pricey.

Just to clarify, Im not saying that these tools are "evil "or should be outlawed or that you are somehow "flawed" if you buy them. Im just addressing the "wouldnt this be a great self defense weapon?" issue. Besides my firearms and some training sticks and blades, all I have is a couple of sheathed blades that typically see action (these days) as hunting/camping tools and a couple of pocket folders for daily carry. I have a display Katana that is currently wrapped up in a corner somewhere just cause I wanted it. But while I may like or want that cold steel "War Axe", Im not a collector and have no place to display it and I just dont see where I would ever need or use it.

They're toys. Toys are fun. What more justification does anyone need? I know someone who carries around Lynn Thompson's African Walking Stick which isn't African and isn't a great walking stick even though it looks cool. He says that it's a "Traditional African Personal Relaxation Device". Take a look at the picture, and it's pretty near-fetched

 

[Blotan Hunka]

It's all about image. The world is dangerous. You take your Big Potent Object of Power and fight the Bad Man. You are safe. You get status and breeding rights. It's a lot like the SCA or the BDSM scene. Except that if you spent the money on funny clothes for either of those two you'd be more likely to actually find a girl to sleep with

Some of us are up front about our fetishes. I just plain like weapons as a collector and a martial artist. I've already got a wife, and I'm well equipped for any sort of self defense situation I'm likely to encounter. Past that it's just a hobby. Some people have more money to spend on their hobby and buy WWII era smachets and the kind of katana that needs to be sent to Japan for polishing. Others make do with Museum Replicas and Cold Steel, although some of that stuff is pricey.

I have to agree. I wonder, is this phenomonea a natural human (male) activity or a sign of social ineptitude? Im fairly confident that its all relative (as is everything). With the guy who only buys a gun to feel safe in his home and able to protect his family on one side of the scale and the SCA guy with the Klingon battle blades and every Cold Steel special edition ever sold on the other. Not that one is a "better person" than the other or anything like that.

 

[Carol]

"Traditional African Personal Relaxation Device". Take a look at the picture, and it's pretty near-fetched

"[FONT=arial, helvetica]Although its primary mission is to be a walking stick to aid one’s balance when crossing uneven, slippery, wet or rough terrain, it can also serve as a pointer, lever, or probe"[/FONT]



(withholds comment)