IMAF Leadership

[Kirk]

Sounds like it's going the way of EPAK. Lots of politics involved
in the art now. It has eventually led to some positive things, but
I think at this point in time, the bad still outweighs the good.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by DoctorB



Bloodwood, there is an element of truth with regard to your statement and the comment quoted by Mr. Hartman, from Mickey, however, I would caution both of you and others to beware of those people who have merely left a particular organization, yet continued to train and develop their skills, else where!

These people might very well be highly skilled, extremely knowledgable instructors in their ow right. The fact that "they have not been seen" at the organizational training sessions/ schools/seminars and camps by the "orthodox traditionalists" of that particular system should not be confused with ineptness.

There are numerous people within any system or art that we have neither seen nor heard of because they have departed the scene before we arrived. The fact we are not aware of who they are and what they can do within the art, Does Not, in and of itself does not constitute an inability to do the art.

Thus, I will again say to everone reading this thread and others on Modern Arnis - the 2003 Symposium is an opportunity for people to meet one another and determine for themselves who among us has 'exceptional' skills in the art or 'excellent', or 'very good', or 'good' or 'above average' or 'average' or 'poor' or for that matter, 'none'!

It is an opportunity to find out if someone has a couple of things that your feel would help you in your personal development.

I would again strees to you and all others reading these posts, talk is cheap, cyber-postings do not equate to actual martial skills and the proof is always going to be determined on the training floor in the final analysis.

Therefore, I am suggsting that it is time to move beyond what Professor did and said... that is all in the past, it can not and it will not be changed. Leadership and respect are earned. At the Symposium, we wll have an opportunity to meet and train with some of the leading people within the art of Modern Arnis and ALL of them trained with Professor Presas.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

DoctorB,

I understand your comments and your desire to have the Modern Arnis community to come together in 2003.

I noticed that Mickey said, "These guys that leave and do NOT train and then come back and hang around with their old instructors for a few hours or a few days and then complain because other people are progressing in 'their' art." So, I believe the intent of the original post in the locker room and here were to address this issue for those that did not train.

Mickey also said, "This is not an attack on those that leave a group and train their basement alone or with friends, or with those that open their own independent schools. Unless of course they also complain about people who might have more rank then them." Which in my opinion covers your point as well for those that went elsewhere and still trained or taught. That is great. I believe the problem Mickey and others here are talking about are those that complain about people getting promoted over them, when they leave the organization.

For example: If Tim Hartman who had left the IMAF while Remy Presas was still alive, and Remy Presas had been cured and he returned and for example Dr. Schea had been promoted to 6th or even 7th degree in a few years. Would Tim Hartman have had the 'right' to complain about the rank of Dr. Schea?
(* This has some assumptions in this example. The first being that Remy Presas was cured, the second being that Tim Hartman and Remy Presas would not have patched up their differences and the issues that lead to Tim Hartman's leaving. the third being the Dr. Schea had staid and continued to train and advance. *)

This is how I took the posts. I could be wrong, it is just my opinion.

Best Regards

Rich
:asian:

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

By no means am I taking shots at the people who have been still training. When I saw this post I thought of only one person, Rocky Paswik.

I was catching up with reading the E-digest and there was a post from Rocky crying about how he is out ranked by people that started long after he did. He was always whining about this issue in the past. I might have felt sorry for him if it weren't for the fact that he left Remy in the late 80's of early 90's. When you stop training and people pass you in rank you have no one to blame but yourself.

Remy would have taken him back if Rocky wanted to come back. It was Rocky who chose to stay away.

If you drop out of school you have no right to complain about the people who graduate.

If Rocky wants to prove something, he should come to the symposium and show what he's got. If not then Shut Your Hole!

:soapbox:

Well, it's time I get off my soap box.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Renegade
Shut Your Hole!

Don't hold back man, say what you really feel.

Oh wait, I thought he was yelling at me.

I'm so used to it by now.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons



DoctorB,

I understand your comments and your desire to have the Modern Arnis community to come together in 2003.

I noticed that Mickey said, "These guys that leave and do NOT train and then come back and hang around with their old instructors for a few hours or a few days and then complain because other people are progressing in 'their' art." So, I believe the intent of the original post in the locker room and here were to address this issue for those that did not train.

Mickey also said, "This is not an attack on those that leave a group and train their basement alone or with friends, or with those that open their own independent schools. Unless of course they also complain about people who might have more rank then them." Which in my opinion covers your point as well for those that went elsewhere and still trained or taught. That is great. I believe the problem Mickey and others here are talking about are those that complain about people getting promoted over them, when they leave the organization.

For example: If Tim Hartman who had left the IMAF while Remy Presas was still alive, and Remy Presas had been cured and he returned and for example Dr. Schea had been promoted to 6th or even 7th degree in a few years. Would Tim Hartman have had the 'right' to complain about the rank of Dr. Schea?
(* This has some assumptions in this example. The first being that Remy Presas was cured, the second being that Tim Hartman and Remy Presas would not have patched up their differences and the issues that lead to Tim Hartman's leaving. the third being the Dr. Schea had staid and continued to train and advance. *)

This is how I took the posts. I could be wrong, it is just my opinion.

Best Regards

Rich
:asian:

Hello Rich,

I believe that you and I are in agreement!

People who do not train, need not complain about those who do.
Those people who leave an organization, should never complain about being passed by others who stayed and did the work required to get their promotions. And those people who remained in the organization or who came in at a later point should be very careful not to dismiss the people who left, yet continued tot train, because the "outsiders" may have significant contributions to make to the art, precisely because they went in a slightly different direction, thereby experiencing a different set of ideas.

In my own case, I really do not worry about the people who have gone to 4th, 5th and 6th degrees in Modern Arnis , since I left the organzation. I was ranked at Lakan Tatlo, when I left, that is still my rank in the that particular art. Others moved up and ahead in Modern Arnis ranking - congratulations to all of them - I chose to move in a different direction. That decision, in turn opened some other doors of opportunity and associations, so that I could reach my Lakan Anim ranking in a different system and have more flexibility to explore the arts of interest to me than I had under Professor and the Modern Arnis system.

I have had the opportunity to work with several of the people who have indicated that they want to instruct at the Symposium, so I am very well aware of potential impact that the event could have on the minds and ideas of those who do in fact attend.

The Symposium will open some eyes and minds to the vast depths to which one can take this art and some will rrrealize that Professor **was not** the only innovative person working the Modern Arnis style of the FMAs. The major problem within Modern Arnis is that too many people have been 'seduced' by the magic of the man, that they have lost sight of the realities that one can find within the art itself, as first developed by the late Professor.

BTW, that is a major premise of Bram Frank's book, "Conceptual Modern Arnis", that is in it's final editing process at Paladin Press.
He also refers to a number of people whom he identies as "renegades" because they were major innovators within Modern Arnis. Dan Anderson mentioned this in his recent Inside Kung Fu article.

We must recognize Professor's genius and creation, but we also need to recognize that he was fallible as a human being. We need to show respect for him as the founder and Grand Master of the art of Modern Arnis, while understanding that nothing in nature is stagnant - change always occurs - however slowly in some cases, there is still change.

My position is that we need the Symposium. We need to see one another, talk to one another and learn from everyone who is in attendence at the event. This is a time of change and I belieeve that it is better to be in front, because the view never changes when you are bringing up the rear... and you have to hope that there is not a sudden stop!!!!!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Mickey]

Originally posted by Renegade

By no means am I taking shots at the people who have been still training. When I saw this post I thought of only one person, Rocky Paswik.

I was catching up with reading the E-digest and there was a post from Rocky crying about how he is out ranked by people that started long after he did. He was always whining about this issue in the past. I might have felt sorry for him if it weren't for the fact that he left Remy in the late 80's of early 90's. When you stop training and people pass you in rank you have no one to blame but yourself.

Remy would have taken him back if Rocky wanted to come back. It was Rocky who chose to stay away.

If you drop out of school you have no right to complain about the people who graduate.

If Rocky wants to prove something, he should come to the symposium and show what he's got. If not then Shut Your Hole!

:soapbox:

Well, it's time I get off my soap box.

DOH!

When I wrote my post in the locker room, I did not intend it for anyone in particular, mentioned, here.

I do not know Rich Parsons, Renegade, nor Rocky Paswik.

Mick

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by DoctorB



Hello Rich,

I believe that you and I are in agreement!
. . .
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Thanks Doctor B