If BJJ is so effective, why isn't everybody doing it?

[Anarax]

Getting dumped honestly sucks more than getting hit.

Depends on who is doing the dumping(immature giggle) and who is doing the hitting.

 

[JR 137]

Not at all. My Japanese Jujitsu instructor had us do heavy/full body throws and we were conditioned to take them. Suplexes can be done in a variety of ways. I'm referring to the explosive version that you see in wresting(not WWE), not the softer trip/suplex you see in BJJ.


Comparing a knee strike to a full suplex into the ground isn't a reasonable comparison. A full force roundhouse kick/knee to the face is much closer as force/damage is concerned.


You have time to tap in submissions, which was my original point. JJJ is my base grappling art and my instructor heavily emphasized breakfalls and drilled us to take throws. We would spar/roll hard many classes and because of his teachings we rarely if ever had significant injuries.

When he said “take a knee” I’m pretty sure he meant go to one knee, thereby getting a break. As in boxing (counts as a knockdown). Not getting hit with a knee.

 

[JR 137]

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Getting dumped honestly sucks more than getting hit.

Depends on who’s dumping you and who’s hitting you. And which throw and which punch and where.

I’d take a punch from practically anyone over a suplex from Aleksandr Karelin. I’d take a throw from practically anyone over a hook from Mike Tyson.

Between those two? Yeah... um... I guess I’ll take Karelin’s suplex.

Maybe not.

Do you want to be shot or stabbed?

 

[Anarax]

You can take a knee striking any time as well.

Thanks to JR explaining what you meant I'll expand on this. The submission requires contact and the technique itself to be executed for injury to occur. However, with striking the contact and technique are one and the same. The point of contact regardless of striking technique is designed to inflict injury upon contact. The kinetic dynamics of striking are different from BJJ.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks to JR explaining what you meant I'll expand on this. The submission requires contact and the technique itself to be executed for injury to occur. However, with striking the contact and technique are one and the same. The point of contact regardless of striking technique is designed to inflict injury upon contact. The kinetic dynamics of striking are different from BJJ.

Provided you frown upon all the moves that are either momentum based or are just too quick to injure people.

Provided you don't rack on locks. Provided you don't slam people and provided you don't just get punched kicked and elbowed incidentally in transition.

You are specifically comparing a soft people friendly version of grappling to striking.

But the reason your idea of grappling is this soft people friendly version is because of the dangerous nature of grappling.

 

[Anarax]

Provided you frown upon all the moves that are either momentum based or are just too quick to injure people.

Could you provide examples of BJJ submissions that the person has absolutely no time to tap?

Provided you don't rack on locks. Provided you don't slam people and provided you don't just get punched kicked and elbowed incidentally in transition.

"Rack" as in crank? I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Accidents happen, but if you're consistently getting punched, elbowed and kicked while rolling then there's a problem with your rolling partner.

You are specifically comparing a soft people friendly version of grappling to striking.

No, I'm contrasting the sparring dynamics of striking and rolling in BJJ.

But the reason your idea of grappling is this soft people friendly version is because of the dangerous nature of grappling.

You keep conflating grappling and BJJ, the original point was how BJJ rolling differs from sparring(striking). I studied BJJ for years and my team traveled to numerous gyms and had the amazing opportunity to roll with many people. We rolled hard but didn't accrue any noteworthy injuries. Learning the setups and knowing when to tap is a very important component of BJJ training.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Could you provide examples of BJJ submissions that the person has absolutely no time to tap?

Can your opponent tap from this position?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Can your opponent tap from this position?

Yep. You don’t have to tap with your hands. You can tap with your feet or just say “tap” verbally.

 

[TMA17]

I think BJJ popularity is at an all-time, due to the Gracies, UFC and the effectiveness of the art. I feel tradtional arts are fading, and MMA is replacing them.

If you're in it for self defense or want to learn how to fight, you need to know how to strike, and how to grapple. It's as simple as that. There are a variety of striking arts and grappling arts. In grappling, you can train at 100% against your opponent. I was never a big fan of BJJ, but it's so effective and necessary to know to be a well rounded fighter.

 

[drop bear]

Could you provide examples of BJJ submissions that the person has absolutely no time to tap?

Double leg over arm bar with underhooks.

I have seen these half Nelson transitions basically rip dudes heads off.

Twisters and such.

Heel hooks of course.

Now obviously if you put them on slow. Of dont do them they are not dangerous. But if I punch you slow or don't punch you that is not dangerous as well.

 

[drop bear]

Yep. You don’t have to tap with your hands. You can tap with your feet or just say “tap” verbally.

The throw from the front side is not only super risky. But a really common position for noobs.

 

[drop bear]

You keep conflating grappling and BJJ, the original point was how BJJ rolling differs from sparring(striking). I studied BJJ for years and my team traveled to numerous gyms and had the amazing opportunity to roll with many people. We rolled hard but didn't accrue any noteworthy injuries. Learning the setups and knowing when to tap is a very important component of BJJ training.

Because BJJ allows elements of other grappling systems. I can judo throw or wrestling double leg.

I have boxed hard and haven't accrued any noteworthy injuries. Broken noses and hands are pretty much the worst of it.

 

[JR 137]

Because BJJ allows elements of other grappling systems. I can judo throw or wrestling double leg.

I have boxed hard and haven't accrued any noteworthy injuries. Broken noses and hands are pretty much the worst of it.

We have to define noteworthy injuries.

My former dojo had a person who left due to her noteworthy injury - broken finger. How noteworthy is that? She was a court stenographer and couldn’t work for 6 weeks. And she said it was bothering her and slowing her down for a few weeks after that.

A friend of a friend left BJJ after tearing a ligament in his thumb. That’s a noteworthy one, requiring surgical repair (gamekeeper’s thumb). He’s a pro violin player.

If I tear or break anything, it’s not exactly going to put my academic teachering career in jeopardy. Sure it’ll be a pain in the a$$, if I hurt myself and need surgery, but nothing career threatening. Not even close.

 

[drop bear]

We have to define noteworthy injuries.

My former dojo had a person who left due to her noteworthy injury - broken finger. How noteworthy is that? She was a court stenographer and couldn’t work for 6 weeks. And she said it was bothering her and slowing her down for a few weeks after that.

A friend of a friend left BJJ after tearing a ligament in his thumb. That’s a noteworthy one, requiring surgical repair (gamekeeper’s thumb). He’s a pro violin player.

If I tear or break anything, it’s not exactly going to put my academic teachering career in jeopardy. Sure it’ll be a pain in the a$$, if I hurt myself and need surgery, but nothing career threatening. Not even close.

As opposed to knees or necks.

 

[Headhunter]

I think BJJ popularity is at an all-time, due to the Gracies, UFC and the effectiveness of the art. I feel tradtional arts are fading, and MMA is replacing them.

If you're in it for self defense or want to learn how to fight, you need to know how to strike, and how to grapple. It's as simple as that. There are a variety of striking arts and grappling arts. In grappling, you can train at 100% against your opponent. I was never a big fan of BJJ, but it's so effective and necessary to know to be a well rounded fighter.

Mma isn't replacing anything. People said in 93 that karate was going to die out soon because of Bjj but it's still going strong with millions of people still training it. No style has died out since the UFC got big all this nonsense about jiu Jitsu making other styles die out....that's just jiu Jitsu propaganda. I saw an aikido class the other day that had about 20 people in it...more people than I've ever seen in the Bjj school in the same area

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Mma isn't replacing anything. People said in 93 that karate was going to die out soon because of Bjj but it's still going strong with millions of people still training it. No style has died out since the UFC got big all this nonsense about jiu Jitsu making other styles die out....that's just jiu Jitsu propaganda. I saw an aikido class the other day that had about 20 people in it...more people than I've ever seen in the Bjj school in the same area

I think it's a matter of "current fad". The competitive teens and 20's are drawn toward the current observable competition fad (MMA). A while back that draw was to BJJ. Before that, it was "Karate" (really a number of arts, but they mostly just called them "Karate"). Before that, it was Boxing. I'm probably skipping some of them along the way. So I tend to see a younger average age in MMA/BJJ schools than at one of the more traditional Asian systems. The fad will shift again sometime, and something else will draw those folks. Someday, it will probably cycle around to Asian arts again.

 

[Headhunter]

I think it's a matter of "current fad". The competitive teens and 20's are drawn toward the current observable competition fad (MMA). A while back that draw was to BJJ. Before that, it was "Karate" (really a number of arts, but they mostly just called them "Karate"). Before that, it was Boxing. I'm probably skipping some of them along the way. So I tend to see a younger average age in MMA/BJJ schools than at one of the more traditional Asian systems. The fad will shift again sometime, and something else will draw those folks. Someday, it will probably cycle around to Asian arts again.

Also the fact is mma is a young mans sport. Not that older people can't do it but generally it'll be youngef people training it and when people get older their body simply can't always take the punishment so go towards things like tai chi or aikido which are softer on the body.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

when people get older their body simply can't always take the punishment so go towards things like tai chi or aikido which are softer on the body.

No matter which MA style that you train, if you punch/kick out slow, you will get the same health result as if you train the Taiji system. The Taiji system came from the long fist system by slowing down the movement.

 

[Anarax]

Double leg over arm bar with underhooks.

I have seen these half Nelson transitions basically rip dudes heads off.

You're arguing damage potential, not reaction time. You have enough time to tap to those techniques. Feeling the onset, it being sunk in and the execution itself is enough time to tap.

Now obviously if you put them on slow. Of dont do them they are not dangerous. But if I punch you slow or don't punch you that is not dangerous as well.

You just proved my point. The submission is still there regardless if it's being executed quickly or slowly. Executing it more slowly only gives your opponent more time to escape, but it's still a submission. A strike has to reach a certain velocity for it to inflict trauma, thus the kinetic dynamics differ from a submission.

 

[drop bear]

You're arguing damage potential, not reaction time. You have enough time to tap to those techniques. Feeling the onset, it being sunk in and the execution itself is enough time to tap.


You just proved my point. The submission is still there regardless if it's being executed quickly or slowly. Executing it more slowly only gives your opponent more time to escape, but it's still a submission. A strike has to reach a certain velocity for it to inflict trauma, thus the kinetic dynamics differ from a submission.

You have time to move out of the way or block a punch. So they are safe as well.